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Captain Red

in the next 20 years one of two things will happen...

Either:  

31 members have voted

  1. 1. Either:

    • Marijuana will become legal or...
      20
    • Tobacco will be banned.
      11


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If marijuana is legalized, you could probably only smoke it designated areas such as hash bars, so I wouldn't expect to be able to see people walking down the street enjoying a joint, like a tobacco cig.

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It might not be democracy when "thrown in", for the simple reason that the masses might not have a clue. They're easily affected - throw in some news with a sufficiently shocking tilt in the presentation and watch the scale turn over. In my opinion, a vote is only democratic if the public has been given a fair amount of unbiased information beforehand.

And voting someone in to make decisions is a very good idea. It would be impossible for 'us' to deal with the amount of matters that politicians have to tackle. Besides, a lot of tasks do require expertise that not everybody has. The public must be able to make global decisions, such as voting for a party that represents an ideology that in turn will reflect the member politicians' decisions, but it is unreasonable to expect the public to know enough about every detail to make good choices in regards to them.

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Fredrik said:

It might not be democracy when "thrown in", for the simple reason that the masses might not have a clue. They're easily affected - throw in some news with a sufficiently shocking tilt in the presentation and watch the scale turn over. In my opinion, a vote is only democratic if the public has been given a fair amount of unbiased information beforehand.

but they ARE informed. every year a voter's handbook is released and sent to all registered voters, with arguments on the pro and con sides of the argument. anyone can purchase a page in the handbook for $500 or so. oregon was the first state to institute such a reform (back in 1902) and it's always worked very well.

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What does being informed have to do with democracy and voting?

And do you think people are informed when they elect their representatives? Of course they aren't. By your logic, democracy doesn't exist anywhere.

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sargebaldy said:

anyone can purchase a page in the handbook for $500 or so.

Um...wtf? Are you serious? That's retarded.

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læmænt said:

What does being informed have to do with democracy and voting?

And do you think people are informed when they elect their representatives? Of course they aren't. By your logic, democracy doesn't exist anywhere.

It isn't government by the people if the government manipulates the people. Democracy is a word that at least I associate with a set of fundamental principles other than voting.

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læmænt said:

By your logic, democracy doesn't exist anywhere.

i would argue that a true democracy has never existed anywhere, because that would involve a direct democracy by everyone (yes with no age limit) and no representative gov't.

Quast said:

Um...wtf? Are you serious? That's retarded.

i hardly see what's retarded about it.

Fredrik said:

It isn't government by the people if the government manipulates the people. Democracy is a word that at least I associate with a set of fundamental principles other than voting.

all governments manipulate people.

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You guys forget that there were about two different times in US history when marijuana was close to being legalized. The first I believe was in 1968-69, the second in 1976. Both times the efforts of several lobbyists and politicians were effectively squashed. Why? One can only theorize.

My offering is that the government, as a whole, makes too much money off of illicit drugs as it is. If the US really didn't want cocaine flowing in through the southern border, IT WOULDN'T. Drug selling is enough of a lucrative business to turn homeless people into celebrities-- imagine what it could do if there were some overlying power attached to it. So now we have "search and seizure" laws. Which, if you think about it, is a 100% tax.

Everything is taxed, or at least susceptible to skimming off the top from federal and state legislators under the guise of "funding". Why are so many drug users in jail? Because the drug dealers aren't. Why are there so many drug users in jail? To create the need for more federal funding in the area of growth. Why are there so many drug users in jail? Because they opted not to rat on their dealers, thereby making the dealer's business thrive THAT much longer-- resulting in more profit-- er, seized property-- for the local law enforcement. Completely unknowing, drug dealers are the gophers for bloated government spenders.

This theater play that we call the "war on drugs" is an expertly played game of cat-and-mouse directed by our government in order to make the most profit from the most profitable business in history.
[/conspiracy]

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Numbermind said:

This theater play that we call the "war on drugs" is an expertly played game of cat-and-mouse directed by our government in order to make the most profit from the most profitable business in history.
[/conspiracy]

O... K...

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The Taliban had almost completely stopped opium production in Afghanistan, now,thanks to US/British bombing, the harvest is thriving once more.

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fodders said:

The Taliban had almost completely stopped opium production in Afghanistan, now,thanks to US/British bombing, the harvest is thriving once more.

whew...good news then I guess

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fodders said:

The Taliban had almost completely stopped opium production in Afghanistan, now,thanks to US/British bombing, the harvest is thriving once more.


So-- because of the bombings, more opium is growing?

Reminds me of smoking that Chernobyl weed back in the 80's. Good times with the crystal monkey hat barbeque.

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No, the Taliban were killed by the bombing so allowing opium to be grown and sold again. CIA need it to fund projects.

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I vote neither. Marijuana will never be legalized witht he way the government is. And tabacco woul dneer be banned. When this country was started Tabacco was our number 1 export. Our country grew because of Tabacco. IF there was no tabacco, we would have never survived (whoa tobacco keeping people alive, thats a first) and we would never be here today to argue about it.

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Numbermind said:

Reminds me of smoking that Chernobyl weed back in the 80's. Good times with the crystal monkey hat barbeque.



Radioactive weed... OH YUMMY!!!!!!!!

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I hate Tobacco, I hate drugs, I hate alcohol. I hate all three of them, I know 'heytuh' is a strong word, but I do dislike them with such a passion. I do agree with the fact that if people do things in their own privacy without disturbing others its not too much of a bother but even something like smoking in the same area as me gets me angry, as a human I have to breath, and I do not wish to breathe air that wouldn't do me much better than not breathing at all. I myself can't see much help coming to the legalization of marijuana, it will just make the people who do it be more open with it. I also don't see much sense in smoking (I know that its the company's money dee-lee) but for smoking it, stress? No excuse, it makes things more hectic when you are scavaging for more money for tobacco. Though the fact of addiction, if you want to stop, then do, if you really want to stop, you can, if you don't care enough, then why care enough to live? You are killing yourself slowly by smoking tobacco, why not make the process a lot more quick and painless and less costly by ending it all now? It doesn't make much sense. But as long as it doesn't effect me or others who are bothered by it, I am okay with it. Watching people wither away for a hollow reason is not so entertaining however.

Okay, I'm done. :D

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DOOM Anomaly said:

I myself can't see much help coming to the legalization of marijuana, it will just make the people who do it be more open with it.

How is that bad?

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læmænt said:

How is that bad?

I didn't mean that is bad, rather that I can't see any help coming from it. I myself just can't see much reason in it being legalized other than exposing it to more people and let it be out in the open freely.

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yeah, well cars are cows farting are doing more dammage to your precious lungs than passive smoking.

What? You don't want to ban cars or hamburgers because you happen to like them? Well, shit.

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darknation said:

yeah, well cars are cows farting are doing more dammage to your precious lungs than passive smoking.

What? You don't want to ban cars or hamburgers because you happen to like them? Well, shit.

I am not saying that things should be banned, and also not because of what I feel. But I do see more of a use to cars than I do smoking.

Also, don't pay much mind to what I say (if you do in the first place :P), I am just saying what I thought of it, not declaring it the epitome of evil and wrongness. Sorry to arouse any anger out of it though, that is why I rarely voice my opinion. :D

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darknation said:

smoking makes me not grumpy.

You wouldn't like me when I'm grumpy.

Hahaha, okay. :D
But then given there was nothing to make you grumpy would that make you quit on the spot?

I can see that in every point for something there is a point for something else, but something like Tobacco is just something I can't see that the human race has absolutely needed to survive as it has. The same with mosquitoes, though they could have helped carry some ancient blood or whatnot, I can't see much use for them. :P

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If marijuana were legalized, there'd be a sudden celebratory surge in use. You'd start to see it everywhere. That is, until the novelty wore off. Then people would go back to hiding out in their homes(maybe with friends) and getting paranoid that someone's going to knock on the door and bust in. Force of habit.

Pot's easy enough to buy these days, and it's pretty cheap considering I use it only sporadically... $20 worth of pot will keep me entertained for a week. That's good spending habits, right there.

All in all, I don't carry large amounts around with me, so why the hell should I be worried about it being legal or not? So I can just go to the local bar to get it? What, is it the convenience factor? Hell, I can ask around for some when I walk into the place I work and have some by the time I'm off.

Personally, there are no benefits for me. But if marijuana replaced tobacco, I think America would be a better place in which to live.

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Lord FlatHead said:

Legalised, mary jane would probably cost so much more than it does now.

I'm just wondering, how do you figure that?

Numbermind said:

stuff

There's so much more to legalizing it than just convenience factors. Just for example, it's legal status will determine how many users there are, which will affect the number of people that drive high, which MIGHT effect the number of car accidents. A whole new equilibrium will be reached, favoring god knows what. Who knows what the fuck will happen, it being a gamble on so many levels is the reason why it hasn't been legalized yet, and why it might not ever be. This is going way past the health issues, into directions that you most likely can't predict but only notice through experimentation. I mean there's ways you can argue it being cheaper and you can argue it being more expensive, but there's only one real way of knowing what will actually happen. Just who the fuck actually predicted prohibition would increase the amount of alcohol being consumed at the time, hmm? That's why I'm hoping Canada will be the lab rat here.

And personally, I can picture some situations where I myself would prefer for it to stay illegal.

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DOOM Anomaly said:

I didn't mean that is bad, rather that I can't see any help coming from it. I myself just can't see much reason in it being legalized other than exposing it to more people and let it be out in the open freely.

It is in the open freely maan I live in shitfuck no where and can go get a pound when ever I want to If i have the cash that is.

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