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Cajun[CC]

Anyone else have this problem?

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The other day, I decided to try my hand at making Doom maps again. It's been a while. Mostly because of a lack of good editors that'll run in a Windows environment. Heh. But anyway, I pull up Doom Builder and get crackin. But here's my problem. The first few sections of the map are great. Things are detailed, there's some good lighting effects, some interesting stuff, great texture alignment... You know, it's good. But then as I make more parts of the map, the quality goes way down and things start being 128 wide and 90 degree angles and rooms get smaller and less complex and it just starts sucking. I can't figure out why I lose that inspiration after the first few rooms and halls. Maybe I'm just destined to make tiny maps?

Anyone have any tips to keeps my maps fron degrading as I'm making them? Or am I just being too hard on myself?

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Hmm....well's here my advice:
Get a good firm idea of what you want to see in your map, then when you're ready, go map it out. It works for me. It doesn't matter what the sectors look like in editor, don't worry about that.
Just edit until you have fully realized your map out in the editor.

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Cajun[CC] said:
The other day, I decided to try my hand at making Doom maps again. It's been a while. Mostly because of a lack of good editors that'll run in a Windows environment. Heh. But anyway, I pull up Doom Builder and get crackin. But here's my problem. The first few sections of the map are great. Things are detailed, there's some good lighting effects, some interesting stuff, great texture alignment... You know, it's good. But then as I make more parts of the map, the quality goes way down and things start being 128 wide and 90 degree angles and rooms get smaller and less complex and it just starts sucking. I can't figure out why I lose that inspiration after the first few rooms and halls. Maybe I'm just destined to make tiny maps?

Anyone have any tips to keeps my maps fron degrading as I'm making them? Or am I just being too hard on myself?


OMFG dude, thats the EXACT thing that happens to me when I try to make maps! I don't know why that happens, unless it is because of trying to make tiny details and such =/

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Anyone have any tips to keeps my maps fron degrading as I'm making them? Or am I just being too hard on myself?

Read a book, go hiking, talk to other people, travel, see different places, ideas are laying around everywhere.
If all else fails, open up one of the better maps like Darkening 2, Chord3, Vrack(1-3), AV, just to name a few... and take note of why their maps looks so good, then get cracking.
Oh, and don't be lazy, there's a big difference between a square room and one with curved corners, paneled walls, and lighting sectors.

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Converted DOOMer said:

Oh, and don't be lazy, there's a big difference between a square room and one with curved corners, paneled walls, and lighting sectors.

Amen.

Another suggestion, Cajun[CC], is to approach a room/area with your intended gameplay in mind. Do you want the room/area to be more open, with many enemies charging at you from different directions (mostly recommended for slower and/or weaker enemies)? Large, open spaces are the most difficult to detail, as you have more work to do. Still, if you're working with an outdoor, rocky area, it's relatively easy to split your linedefs and make more natural rock walls (remember to align them afterwards). You can add shelves in the rock, or outcrops. You can even insert supports (e.g., use SUPPORT/2 textures) at periodic intervals in the walls. Indoor areas can be dealt with in a similar fashion, and you can add overhead beams, recessed lights or ceiling panels, skylights. It's only limited by your imagination and the amount of work you're willing to put in.

Or do you want a fewer of the deadlier enemies (e.g., archviles)? In which case you'd want to provide some cover (such as pillars). Further, your pillars do not have to be square (in cross-section) -- they can be hexagonal, even round, and they can be on platforms, and the platforms can have brackets that fix them to the wall or ceiling. And so on... (See Pic No. 8 on this page for an example.)

It's natural to get tired (even exhausted) during the making of a map. But like everything else, making a good map requires extra effort. Keep at it, and good luck.

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Well, I took a break from it for a day and when I came back I was much refreshed. I think a part of me was getting frustrated because I just wanted it to be done so I could play it. Now it's almost finished. The basic map structure is done, thing placement is done, most of it is fairly well detailed... I think... I dunno... heh... I just need to go back and add some more little touches to it and I guess I'll upload it for /newstuff this coming week. I'll be my first. Not big, not terribly complex, but I like it. :)

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Cajun[CC] said:
I think a part of me was getting frustrated because I just wanted it to be done so I could play it.

I guess I'll upload it for /newstuff this coming week.


I'll be my first.


Just remember that while it is exciting to finish and play your first map, unless it is actually decent, it is best to keep it to yourself. But it seems you know what you are doing, you know what the term 'texture alignment' is, heh.

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Here are a few screenshots if anyone's interested. I've actually made quite a few maps before, but never released any because, frankly, they all sucked balls. With this one, I decided to take my time and actually do things right and see what I could come up with.

http://www.myrtlemadness.net/~cajuncc/doom0002.jpg
http://www.myrtlemadness.net/~cajuncc/doom0003.jpg
http://www.myrtlemadness.net/~cajuncc/doom0004.jpg

If anyone wants to give it a whirl and give a couple tips or some constructive criticizm, just let me know and I'll put it up somewhere now. That way I can save myself the embarrassment of a horrible /newstuff review if it really DOES suck. heh.

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Cajun[CC] said:
If anyone wants to give it a whirl and give a couple tips or some constructive criticizm, just let me know and I'll put it up somewhere now. That way I can save myself the embarrassment of a horrible /newstuff review if it really DOES suck.

For your first planned release I'd have to say that, frankly, it does not suck balls. On the contrary, it looks quite nice. If the gameplay is at par with the looks, you appear to have a decent map on your hands.

As for the newstuff review, don't let a little thing like other people's opinions get in the way of enjoying yourself while making maps. Yes, it is nice to hear praise, but if your map does get panned it shouldn't stop you from trying to make more and better (or mo' better, if you prefer) maps.

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Heh, I'm having exactly the opposite problem as you do: I keep adding TOO MUCH detail. The good thing is that it does look great and all, but with this speed it takes propably months to do one map. I have about 700 sectors and 6100 sidedefs this far on my map and it's 20% done at max.

Well, anyway. I'll take a look at your map if I find the time.

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DooMer 4ever said:

I have about 700 sectors and 6100 sidedefs this far on my map and it's 20% done at max.

In that case I can't wait to play your map. It sounds like it's going to be spectacular.

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I could send you a demo if you like to see what it's going to be like. I asked for playtesters a couple of days back but no one was interested :(

I don't know if it's going to be that spectacular though, even if the detail is pretty good (I made a tree with branches and apples in it, and a chainsaw with id-logo on it, heh) the level hasn't got any zdoom effects because I have not yet learned how to make those. So no deep water or slopes or anything on this one.

I am trying to implement lots of new ideas though, like in one room you press a switch and a trooper teleports in. When you press the switch again another, more powerful monster teleports in. After you've pressed the switch a couple of times you get the bfg and red keycard (a voodoo doll effect) and a lot of archies teleport in at the same time.

But I don't wish to steal anyone's thread so ehough of that :)

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    I like this map. Good architecture, good game flow.

    Yes, it is a bit too easy, a little bit too bright. To remedy this, wall sections could open, in areas already traversed, to release more monsters which have to be fought on the way back. Another ploy, to increase intensity of the game, is to add lighting effects where the light standards are placed.

    But, it is definitely not BLAH.

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