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Looks like theres some major change going on in the Spanish government:

1. Bush decides to attack Iraq
2. Spain government pledges it's support
3. Spanish people protest.
4. Government ignores people, continues support of Iraq war.
5. Major terrorist attack in Madrid.
6. Government immediately blames ETA with no substantial evidence.
7. A few days later elections are held. The people, tired of being lied to and lead into wars, vote to get rid of old party and bring in the Socialist Labor party.
8. New PM-Elect pledges to remove Spanish troops from Iraq.
9. Spain now added to America's shit list along with France and Germany.

Source: Yahoo/AP
Source: BBC

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10. Terrorists score major victory, having toppled the government of a Western World country by killing only 200 civilians.

I seriously hope that this will not be the only significant outcome of this whole debacle.

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ETA is . . . ?

Anyway, I heard the attack was by some fuckers who want their own country or something. Socialist labor party . . . is that the same thing as Communism?

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Yeah and while all of this is going on, a few friends of mine are staying in Cadice, Spain for a school related function.

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Grimm:

Government = Communism

Therefore, Government != Socialist Party

Oh yeah and War = Peace

[/propoganda]

Seriously, though, I feel bad for what happened, but I don't understand the connections they made to get from points 1 to 10.

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Grimm said:

ETA is . . . ?

Anyway, I heard the attack was by some fuckers who want their own country or something. Socialist labor party . . . is that the same thing as Communism?

Shhht! Grimm. The grown ups talk now!

The thing is that the party elected now, allways were against the war in iraq. Now they are elected they have to follow their political program. Withdraw from iraq.

The PM Aznar, all along knew that ETA was probably not involved, but wanted to reveal this information till after the elections. Only because he hoped this would help him win the elections...

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Grimm said:

ETA is . . . ?



Another quite old terrorist organisation fighting for a seperate Basque Country. They are not above attacks on civilians though the majority of their actions has been assassinations against political figures. Everybody hates them and the outgoing prime minister has a personal grudge against them as he himself had been the target of one of their assassination attempts.

..Anyway, I heard the attack was by some fuckers who want their own country or something. Socialist labor party . . . is that the same thing as Communism?


Hardly, there are scores of so-called "socialist" parties all over Europe. Very few of them have communist sympathies. They are quite pro labor union and such though.

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Personaly, I see this as proof that democracy sometimes works.

- Government screws up
- People get mad
- People elect someone else

Good on them. For all of you who are/will be saying "OMG now the terrorists have won", this did not happen just because of the Madrid bombings. There was a lot of disagreement with the government beforehand. Something like 90% of the population was against the war in Iraq. Perhaps the bombing did tilt the scales ever so much, but it was going to be a close race anyway.

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The sad thing here is that it actually required something as drastic as a terrorist attack to change things to the better.

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So has it been established that the election results are a direct result of the train bombings? Or is that just the assumption that everyone has leapt to?

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I think it is great to see the difference between Americas response and the Spanish response to a terrorist attack.

America: "lets kill everyone and create more bloodshed and chaos!"
Spain: "lets stop the oppression and find a peaceful solution!"

I have nothing but the deepest respect for the spanish people.

Paz!

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Heh, i was about to post something similar, how suddenly places on the internet will become filled with "OMG THE SPANISH ARE FAGS!!!1" the moment they democratically elect a party which wants to pull out of iraq, though until now i didnt even know there was spanish troops in iraq, though i knew their (now ex-) PM supported the war

Anyway, I heard the attack was by some fuckers who want their own country or something. Socialist labor party . . . is that the same thing as Communism?


Heh, the people that want to start thier own country are ETA, the Socialist labour party are just another democratic party, like the democrats or republicans in america..having "socialist" in thier name doesnt really imply they are communist, socialist just means 'control by the workers', and such parties where originally formed from trade unions and other things (the labour party in britain could have been another socialist party, they just chose a different name..and now they act more like a right-wing party)

o has it been established that the election results are a direct result of the train bombings? Or is that just the assumption that everyone has leapt to?


Politicians being politicians, if the bombings had happened a few months before the election, the socialist party might have started to say things like "if we pulled our troops out of iraq it wouldnt have happened!" (and would then have been criticised for exploiting the victims of mass-murder for thier own ends), the fact the people elected them a day after the bombings, showing that they had independantly thought about that themselves, might be saying something

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Fredrik said:

The sad thing here is that it actually required something as drastic as a terrorist attack to change things to the better.


Yeah, sad. Good thing it doesn't always work, eh?

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Grimm said:

Socialist labor party . . . is that the same thing as Communism?

Communism is one form of Socialism. I believe In Spain they have a seperate communist party, (but nobody takes them very serious.)

IMJ said:

So has it been established that the election results are a direct result of the train bombings? Or is that just the assumption that everyone has leapt to?

Lots of Spanish people were already angry at Aznars Popular Party. This party has influences in pretty much every major company in Spain and controls the media. The party is also know for bribes and other scandals.
The fact that Aznar lied again but this time about the attack was probably the final push for many Spanish to vote against him.

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fodders said:

11 Britain receives Anthrax letters.


"Golly Jim, We run out of sugar for tea and some kind chap decides to up and mail us some!"

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Arioch said:

10. Terrorists score major victory, having toppled the government of a Western World country by killing only 200 civilians.

IF YOU ELECT A NEW GOVERNMENT, THE TERRORISTS HAVE ALREADY WON!

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Scabbed Angel said:

How so?

Mostly due to ignorance, gullibility and lack of observance.

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fraggle said:

IF YOU ELECT A NEW GOVERNMENT, THE TERRORISTS HAVE ALREADY WON!

Democracy or not, what's the positive reinforcement the terrorists will receive?

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The now elected Socialist Party is against the war and occupation of Iraq and will take the spanish troops out of Iraq.
Some people may see this as giving in to the terrorists. Terrorists might get the impression that bombings pay off.

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Scientist said:

The now elected Socialist Party is against the war and occupation of Iraq and will take the spanish troops out of Iraq.
Some people may see this as giving in to the terrorists. Terrorists might get the impression that bombings pay off.


That's a load of bull. Almost every country in the world maintains a zero-tolerance policy where terrorists are concerned: Have terrorists stopped bombing? Have organizations like ETA, Al Qaeada etc. disappeared? Of course not. Just look what's happenign EVERY DAY in Iraq!

Arioch:
Terrorists score major victory, having toppled the government of a Western World country by killing only 200 civilians


Oh please, could you distort the truth a little further?

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if they pulled that shit here, bush would get re elected in a heart-beat. every one thinks he's so stron on defence, yet he was onwatch when the Planes be coming crashing to us

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Disorder said:

Terrorists win.

Hilarious. Thats only the third time I heard that joke used.

Today.

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I'm just waiting for "Freedom Fly".

anywho, I hate to agree with anything the neo-cons say but, while I too would gladly kick my government out for going to war in the first place (not that I'd vote for the so-called 'liberal party' any way) there is a risk that terrorist behind this could see it as a victory (terrorist = not reasonable people).

However, I don't think the current government would have remanned in power even with out the attacks.

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Arioch said:
Democracy or not, what's the positive reinforcement the terrorists will receive?

Perhaps they will become slightly more civilized as they'll be dealing with less merciless and aggressive neighbors?

Isn't it obvious that terrorists justify practically all their acts due to the meddling of imperialist and condemning foreign powers?

Would the bombing necessarily have occurred had Aznar not planted his dick in Iraq, smelling the profit and political gain? Granted the terrorists, if it's a fact this was perpetrated by islamic fundamentalists, seem brilliant at gauging political results (or very lucky, at least) but had not they a platter well served?

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Arioch:
10. Terrorists score major victory, having toppled the government of a Western World country by killing only 200 civilians.

Fraggle:
IF YOU ELECT A NEW GOVERNMENT, THE TERRORISTS HAVE ALREADY WON!

Disorder said:
Terrorists win.

First:
I'm pretty damn sure the muslim extremists didn't want a socialist government in place either. Religious fanatics and socialists don't get along too well...

Second:
The right governments will only increase the violence with their "zero-tolerance" leading to more oppression and xenophobia. By electing a left wing government at least there is a chance for peace. Some fools might think this will be "giving in to terrorism" but what is more important: your selfish pride or peace?

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