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Lengis

Is Carmack making the singleplayer game?

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Or is he just making the game engine? I think he once admited he has no idea how to make a fun singleplayer game....

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He's just the engine guy. Many people make the mistake of claiming that id software = John Carmack.

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Now we're mentioning the roles of certain people in a gaming company. What tasks are there? Who does what? I'm familiar with the wellknown roles out there, such as that of the animator, or the programmer, but what other tasks are available? Just curious.

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John Carmack is not "just the engine guy". He seems to have a clear conception of gameplay and he contributes his own ideas to the development like every other id member. Remember the "use key" discussion?

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I think he once admited he has no idea how to make a fun singleplayer game....

Haha, yeah, right.

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Lengis said:
I think he once admited he has no idea how to make a fun singleplayer game....

I recall that. He was implying that he isn't a scenario designer; map making, the arrangement of maps, and specific ingame balance. He seemed to be saying that he could offer a good critique of the design process, but not be a "creator" in the more active sense, except in, obviously, contributing to the basic framework (the engine functionality.) Thus he seems to be good at spotting what could be excesses or redundancies in the design.

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Tetzlaff said:

John Carmack is not "just the engine guy". He seems to have a clear conception of gameplay and he contributes his own ideas to the development like every other id member. Remember the "use key" discussion?


Good call. The use key debate interesting to read about. I suppose the GUI thing they've got going on in place of a use key is the right direction to go.

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mje said:
Good call. The use key debate interesting to read about. I suppose the GUI thing they've got going on in place of a use key is the right direction to go.


So instead of, say, simply pushing a switch to do stuff you can now interface the player with a GUI (thus taking him out of the game) where he has to play a game of tic-tac-toe in order to do stuff. All this to keep the game "simple" and to remove that 'use' key which "clutters" up your controls, eh?

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Mordeth said:

So instead of, say, simply pushing a switch to do stuff you can now interface the player with a GUI (thus taking him out of the game) where he has to play a game of tic-tac-toe in order to do stuff.


Yes, you *CAN* do that... but it doesn t mean that they now change every simple switch into a tic-tac-toe game. Also, it is not taking the player out of the game, because it s an integral part of the game and not just an opportunity for eastereggs and minigames. If it is used right, the new in-game GUI will actually pull the player deeper into the game, because it takes interactivity to a new level.

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Mordeth said:

So instead of, say, simply pushing a switch to do stuff you can now interface the player with a GUI (thus taking him out of the game) where he has to play a game of tic-tac-toe in order to do stuff. All this to keep the game "simple" and to remove that 'use' key which "clutters" up your controls, eh?


I never said anything about a use key cluttering up controls. Neither did I say that the addition of the GUI would keep things simple.

The new GUI system is certainly cool though. I suspect it won't be used all that much in the game, just when there's a moment that requires some thought. It's not that big of a deal really. I don't see it turning DOOM 3 into some big puzzle-fest and where you have to push three different numbers in the GUI to make every single door open.

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mje said:
I never said anything about a use key cluttering up controls. Neither did I say that the addition of the GUI would keep things simple.


I was referring to some interviews with id people, and not your post. Sorry for the confusion ;)

It's not that big of a deal really. I don't see it turning DOOM 3 into some big puzzle-fest and where you have to push three different numbers in the GUI to make every single door open.


I'll be hiding in my bunker until someone can get me confirmation on that, because this sounds -exactly- like the sort of thing I expect to appear. If not out-of-the-box, then in user-made levels.

[EDIT]

And frankly, there is NO difference between pushing a switch and opening a door versus shutting down a generator and thus opening a door. A generator might look like much but, in the end, it's just an elaborate switch with the same amount of interactivity.

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Mordeth said:

And frankly, there is NO difference between pushing a switch and opening a door versus shutting down a generator and thus opening a door.


Technically there is indeed no difference between pushing a simple button or shutting down a generator. But it makes a big difference for the game experience and the way how the things you do in the game form the story. Finding the data disc or the Tank Commanders head in Quake2 could have been replaced with just another red and blue key card... but it is just more interesting to search for items that form part of the story in a way.
Also, in Doom3, if we take the example of data disc and Tank Commanders head, you will be able to read information from the data disc. You maybe have to search for a certain password on that disc to open a door with a numpad, instead of simply using the disc as a key. Or you can take the Tank Commanders head and reactivate his brain on some apparature... there are so many possibilities with that GUI system and, depending on what you make out of it, it IS much more interactive then pulling a switch or bringing a key card to a locked door.

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Tetzlaff said:
Finding the data disc or the Tank Commanders head in Quake2 could have been replaced with just another red and blue key card... but it is just more interesting to search for items that form part of the story in a way.


No, because id already DID replace the key card with an alternate graphic and description: the "tank commander's head". Heck, you can do this in VANILLA DOOM with a little dehacked string replacement. It is the SAME THING, with just a different presentation.

Also, in Doom3, if we take the example of data disc and Tank Commanders head, you will be able to read information from the data disc.


This "read the information from the data disk" is just another description for "your switch turned from red to green". Oh, and you "just did something".

But yes, the description itself in these newfangled games is more interesting. But finding stuff in interviews / reviews with things like "more interactivity than ever before" makes me want to laugh. Or cry. Possibly both. There has not been any innovation in that area since someone came up with explodable walls.

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Mordeth said:

There has not been any innovation in that area after someone came up with explodable walls.

By your reasoning, explodable walls do not represent an innovation, they are simply locked doors and the things you use to blow them up with are keys.

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Fredrik said:
By your reasoning, explodable walls do not represent an innovation, they are simply locked doors and the things you use to blow them up with are keys.


You're right. So, no innovation at all since someone came up with key-locked doors and smelly grues.

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A good FPS is about interesting confrontations against opponents. You're killing things. The placement of the opposition and the design layout they show up in can make the game interesting. It's not about cute ways to spawn a key or open a door; that's not impressive, it's a baroque additive for a saturated market.

I don't personally think DOOM 3 should be innovative as a game, though. It won't be, anyway. It'll be a sate of the art game remake.

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