New screen and article

[dsm]

AndrewB said:

The enemies we've seen so far lack the personality they had in Doom 2.

That's because they've been given a new personality.

Imo, most of the new monsters display far cooler personality traits than the old ones - both in the looks department and in the behavioural department (the imp is a fast bugger).

But that's just my opinion.

[chubberz]

That. Screenshot. Is. Cool. wow............

[AndrewB]

Speed has nothing to do with personality. The imps in Doom had personality in their snorting, their orc-like movements, their screams, and so forth. The cacodemons had fiendishly evil smiles. The monsters in Doom had rich and realistic facial expressions. It makes no sense to have doll-like faces on every monster.

So far, Doom 3 is putting forth a theme of over-the-top, unrealistic, glorified violence. The enemies are just plain stereotypically bad. The bathroom scene where the demon eats the fat guy is an example of a shove-gore-down-your-throat approach to gameplay. It attempts to shock the viewer, but it's just so ridiculously over the top that it leaves me saying "WT_?!"

Again, yes, this is a Doom 3 fan forum, but I've yet to see anything unique or special about the game. Yes, it sure was impressive to see in February 2001, but since then, it's become clear that they were using hacks and tricks to make the demo as pretty as possible.

[Tetzlaff]

What are you talking about? The monsters in Doom having rich and realistic facial expressions? They were mostly cartoonish.

From what we' ve seen so far the new monster designs are imaginative and quite diverse. I really like most of them and IMO they actually have more fitting personalities. The original Doom Imp felt more like a lumbering golem for example, also he moved arround exactly the same way like the Zombie soldiers... the new Imp still resembles the old Imp in a way but is more "impish" and agile and set apart from the other monsters in its behaviour.

[AndrewB]

And Doom 3 monsters aren't cartoonish? That's subjective, anyway. There is nothing "fun" about monsters that are unrealistically agile.

[chubberz]

AndrewB said:

Speed has nothing to do with personality. The imps in Doom had personality in their snorting, their orc-like movements, their screams, and so forth. The cacodemons had fiendishly evil smiles. The monsters in Doom had rich and realistic facial expressions. It makes no sense to have doll-like faces on every monster.

So far, Doom 3 is putting forth a theme of over-the-top, unrealistic, glorified violence. The enemies are just plain stereotypically bad. The bathroom scene where the demon eats the fat guy is an example of a shove-gore-down-your-throat approach to gameplay. It attempts to shock the viewer, but it's just so ridiculously over the top that it leaves me saying "WT_?!"

Again, yes, this is a Doom 3 fan forum, but I've yet to see anything unique or special about the game. Yes, it sure was impressive to see in February 2001, but since then, it's become clear that they were using hacks and tricks to make the demo as pretty as possible.

............right..............

[Linguica]

Zoost said:

Well I do not like the hallway. Because of all the useless metal thingies on the wall, that are only there because the artist did not want to do a clean metal plate. The revenant is OK, but not really scary..

ALL HAIL ZOOST THE INTELLIGENT

[Coopersville]

AndrewB said:

There is nothing "fun" about monsters that are unrealistically agile.

Aye, it's frightening.

[AndrewB]

There's nothing frightening about it either. It's nothing more than "Bang, I'm dead! I guess I have to reload. Ho hum."

[Job]

Judging from the shoulder-mounted "rocket launchers" in the screenshot, I can't see how the revenant could possibly fire any sort of rocket, homing or otherwise. Maybe they changed it to a dual railgun.

[auxois]

I do hope they include some sort of saved games limitation. I don't want there to be "Oh, I'm dead. Must load my savegame of 13 seconds ago."

I hope it's actually limiting, too. 3 per level was too many in SoF. 5 or 10 per game is more like what I'm looking for.

[Job]

How about you have to pick up a mini disc or something of the sort and there are only several, if only one, save point computer where it saves your data onto the disc. After which, you'd need another disc for another save. Kind of like Resident Evil.

[Shaviro]

AndrewB said:

bohoo...my mortal enemies have no personality :'(

What about Birdman? He smiles in an evil unsettling kinda way.
The chainsaw zombie also has a smirk on his face. He looks as if he's happy he's found some fresh meat.

[Zoost]

Linguica said:

ALL HAIL ZOOST THE INTELLIGENT

Now that would be better than my current title!

[Captain Red]

AndrewB said:
Remember when games when games where better then they are now?

AndrewB remembers.

No. You are completely wrong. Shut up.

[toxicfluff]

I think most of the designs are pretty dull so far. The decayed cherub and pinky are the only ones which don't look completely generic to me. Mind you, the fat zombie has an excellent (but not particularly original) design within the frame of what it is, at least to me.

[doomedout]

AndrewB said:

The enemies we've seen so far lack the personality they had in Doom 2.

Agreed, its horrible beyond words. What the hell is id smoking? What happened to the quality of the screenshots and the material therein? This looks horrendous, and that is putting it mildly. I never did like the revenant before, but now its just plain lame.

[Dubh]

Did anyone notice the UAC wall texture is reversed.
At first I thought the whole image was flipped but then the ammo count would be reversed.

Is this a mistake or is it on purpose? I know at this stage anything out of the ordinary is a possible hint at something (conspiracy etc..)
The wait is killing me too..........since macworld....arrrghh

Why release a massive 16MB 4000x3000 screenshot with a mistake in it?

Mehhh I don't know... nice article though. Also, when did this recording take place? Was it a month ago? Did id tell them to hold off on releaseing the article until they say so? GameSpy seem to be one of the more trusted sites imo.

I am looking for conspiracies everywhere..I really need a release date.
Hopefully John will give us something on Thursday...

[Mordeth]

Disorder said:
Cursing? Sweet!

No. It's been done before, in eg. Blood2, and it totally sucks if you keep on keep on keep on keep on hearing it. Talk about distraction from your game enjoyment :(

[Lectrix]

AndrewB said:

The enemies we've seen so far lack the personality they had in Doom 2.

Oh yeah the hell knight is lacking soo much personality, i mean atleast hes not a complete copy of the baron now (well i hope not). And the reventant, that things almost spot on perfect imo.

I think some of us are just expecting way too much out of the character designs and the general look of the game, just be glad ID are doing it in the first place.

[AndrewB]

Ct_red_pants said:

No. You are completely wrong. Shut up.

Burn on, flamehat.

[AndrewB]

Lectrix said:

I think some of us are just expecting way too much out of the character designs and the general look of the game, just be glad ID are doing it in the first place.

Yes, we should be eternally grateful that ID is doing the bare minimum, because without it we would all be depressed and have no entertainment whatsoever.

Sorry, I don't usually like to indulge in sarcasm. I feel that it's the 2nd-lowest form of humor.

[Tetzlaff]

AndrewB: Seems like you decided not to like the game no matter what... It s OK that you like the classic Doom better, but seriously, you can t expect that id Software just sticks narrow-minded to the same simple gameplay of 1994 in every aspect. Compared to other modern FPS I think Doom3 will still be very action orientated and solid, whithout trying to do too many things at once.

Mordeth said:

No. It's been done before, in eg. Blood2, and it totally sucks if you keep on keep on keep on keep on hearing it.

It was annoying in Blood2 because the same 3 cursing lines were used randomly as idle sounds for the NPCs. But from what I understand from that Doom3 article, it s a line in a specific scene and not a random idle sound.

[Fredrik]

Tetzlaff said:

But from what I understand from that Doom3 article, it s a line in a specific scene and not a random idle sound.

Nah, the NPCs will scream that each time you disappear from their line of sight :P

[Scabbed Angel]

AndrewB said:

The enemies we've seen so far lack the personality they had in Doom 2.

Because they are not obnoxiously comical?

AndrewB said:

Speed has nothing to do with personality. The imps in Doom had personality in their snorting, their orc-like movements, their screams, and so forth. The cacodemons had fiendishly evil smiles. The monsters in Doom had rich and realistic facial expressions. It makes no sense to have doll-like faces on every monster.

There is a fair balance between the monsters. I don't know where you get the "all monsters have doll faces" idea from. Rich and realistic facial expressions? LOL. That's sweet.

So far, Doom 3 is putting forth a theme of over-the-top, unrealistic, glorified violence. The enemies are just plain stereotypically bad. The bathroom scene where the demon eats the fat guy is an example of a shove-gore-down-your-throat approach to gameplay. It attempts to shock the viewer, but it's just so ridiculously over the top that it leaves me saying "WT_?!"

Everything you said could easiliy be said for the originals. Uhh... except for the bathroom scene ; ). DooM and DooM 2 are two of the most "ridiculously over the top" games ever concieves. I think that Doom 3 is extremely realistically done based on the circumstances of a demon invasion on mars. What's wrong with the bathroom scene? Too much blood? I can't say I agree; play the Tenenbrae mod for quake one, and then tell me if you still feel this way. Also, what's wrong with id wanting to show off the game they're putting a LOT of work into?

Again, yes, this is a Doom 3 fan forum, but I've yet to see anything unique or special about the game. Yes, it sure was impressive to see in February 2001, but since then, it's become clear that they were using hacks and tricks to make the demo as pretty as possible.

Hey man, you're a member like the rest of us, and this forum isn't just to fawn over and worship D3; you have every right to share your opinions and disapointments. If you really really liked the originals, then you very well may be disapointed by D3. Its meant as a retelling: What Carmack stated was bringing his original vision of what he origanally wanted Doom to be, but the technolody just wasn't there. I can't understand some of your points though. Doom was Doom because it was ludacrisly over the top in terms of action and violence/gore. That's part of what gives it its "personallity" as you call it. D3 is a more serious (read:dramatic) approach. Like watching a really grim horror movie versus a teenie bopper Scream type movie. The original doesn't take itself so seriously, like a scream movie or b-horror flick. Its kinda cheezy, so its fun... its bold. Doom 3 is like Quake 1; its gritty, dark, and realistic which makes it more subtle, but to me, much more to my tastes. Try to look at it as the first and without the nostalgia and perhaps your views would be different. Maybee not, but to each their own.

[Janderson]

Oh! Come On!

Truth be told, I don't think the BoH or the HK had personality in the origional, they were still fun as Hell to fight, doesn't that count for something?

[Scabbed Angel]

Janderson said:

Oh! Come On!

Truth be told, I don't think the BoH or the HK had personality in the origional, they were still fun as Hell to fight, doesn't that count for something?

Fun, but can you take it seriously... see my above post.. now edited with a lot more content.

[Linguica]

My problem with the screenshot is that it looks like the artists just can't bear to have any surfaces be smooth and flat. Instead we have weird ass paneling all over the walls, ridges in the floor, and little holes indented into every possible area. Complete and utter detail overload. The revenant looks fine though. Looks like a, well, revenant.

[Scabbed Angel]

Linguica said:

My problem with the screenshot is that it looks like the artists just can't bear to have any surfaces be smooth and flat. Instead we have weird ass paneling all over the walls, ridges in the floor, and little holes indented into every possible area. Complete and utter detail overload. The revenant looks fine though. Looks like a, well, revenant.

LOL, yeah. I can agree that the screenshot is a very busy, but its better than than Wolenstein 3d right? : )

[Vegeta]

The only monster that I still don't like is the new Lost Soul, at least in the screenshots the fire looks bad, and the robotic parts don't fit imo.