U S A U S A (and britain too)

[dsm]

DooMAD said:

Apparently, one of the officers involved is claiming that he can't be held responsible, because he had recieved no training or relevant instructions regarding the treatment of POW's. WTF? Do military personnel really have to be spoon-fed to avoid this kind of incident in the future?

Yeah, I read about that guy or someone similar (my source claimed he was a Sarge, but that's irrelevant) - freakin' moron, in which lottery did he win his fucking rank?

That guy should be punished twice as severe, simply for trying to cast away his responsibility with such a retarded argument - "weren't instructed" my ass. I bet the phrase "common sense" isn't in his vocabulary.

[gatewatcher]

VinceDSS said:

you are basically speaking about any americans...

As a non-american native, I was really surprised to see how easily american people would sue anybody for whatever reason. The main reason being easy-money.

I have even seen people trying to tease dogs in order to get bitten... crazy country dude...

Hm, you just described maybe 5% of the country, if that. That's what douche bags do and they exist everywhere, they're just more apparent in the US because our legal system is flawed in the way that it allows people to pull a fast one such as you are describing. But to say all Americans do that is just asinine.

[Zoost]

gatewatcher said:

5% of the country

Heh

[doomedout]

Horrible. I don't know what is worse, the pictures, the "thumbs up signs", the chilling smiles or the excuses.

oh btw, Red Wings > Flames.

GO RED WINGS GO!

[Sharessa]

One day, I sall earn my Red Wings.

[Ed]

Earned, unintentionally :\

[Disorder]

It's not just the Americans, it's the Brits too! Al Qaeda will be delighted with it's new recruits!

[DooMAD]

And they're not just humiliating the prisoners, they're beating the shit out of them. Just what our reputation needs.

[dsm]

DooMAD said:

And they're not just humiliating the prisoners, they're beating the shit out of them. Just what our reputation needs.

Why am I reminded of violent British Hooligans by reading this?

[Job]

"I can't describe what I felt when I saw those scenes; they revolted me and proved the barbarity of the occupation forces," said Mohammad Salman, a traffic policeman, Reuters reported. "What's the difference between them and Saddam? They are finishing what he started," he said.

Harsh.

[sargebaldy]

Of course this shit is going to happen. I know people who actually WANT to go to Iraq for the fun of being there, and if you have enough sick people like that there it hardly surprises me what kind of mistreatments they're going to be pulling over there. I'm sure stuff like this will sure go a long way in helping to fix things in the Middle East, make them love our Western culture, stop commiting terrorism, and realize America is the greatest nation on Earth.

[Macvilew|-|ore]

Detirned not to be outdone, the British prove they can be heartless assholes as well! (Not directed at anyone but these certain british soldiers)

A very skewed take on "Hearts and Minds." Excerpts and pictures below.

"A HOODED Iraqi captive is beaten by British soldiers before being thrown from a moving truck and left to die. The prisoner, aged 18-20, begged for mercy as he was battered with rifle butts and batons in the head and groin, was kicked, stamped and urinated on, and had a gun barrel forced into his mouth. After an EIGHT-HOUR ordeal, he was left barely conscious and close to death. Bleeding and vomiting and with a broken jaw and missing teeth, he was driven from a Basra camp and hurled off the truck. No one knows if he lived or died."

Bad apples in the barrel? Not likely. It appears that such behaviour doesn't bother army Officers unduly.

Army chiefs believe it was an isolated incident involving a few rogue troops. But, it is claimed, officers turned a blind eye. One of the soldiers said: "Basically this guy was dying as he couldn't take any more. An officer came down. It was 'Get rid of him - I haven't seen him'. The paperwork gets ripped. So they threw him out, still with a bag on his head."

After the officer allegedly told the attackers to get rid of the suspect he was driven off.

Personal account of one of the heroic soldiers involved -

"We got a warning, saying the Military Police had found a video of people throwing prisoners off a bridge. It wasn't 'Don't do it' or 'Stop it'. It was 'Get rid of it.' "

"We had one who fought back. I thought 'Don't do that', it's the worst thing you can do. He got such a kicking. You could hear your mate's boots hitting this lad's spine.

"One of the lads broke his wrist on a prisoner's head. Another nearly broke his foot, kicking him. We're not helping ourselves out here. We're never going to get the Iraqis on our side. We're fighting a losing war."

Never going to get the Iraqis on your side? And you can't work out why?

LINKS:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1207458,00.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1207569,00.html

The US incident:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1207484,00.html

Frederick's journal:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1207452,00.html

[Gh0sT]

Im sorry, This kind of behaviour is uncalled for, no matter what that iraqi did, If he had killed one of there fellow soldiers, then i beleave that they should have killed him, not beat him and leave him for dead... there are many a fate worse than death, and this seems to be a good example of it.

[Quasar]

Cyb said:

yeah great idea, let's invade a country and say we're going to fix it up all nice but then give up after a couple months because it's too hard. that'll go over well.

I think there are plenty of ways we could still help without trying to run the country under military rule. Unless the perennial Shiite vs Sunni conflict heats up even more, I don't think that Iraqis in charge of their own security would be doing things like this.

[sargebaldy]

Hopefully they wouldn't be doing THIS, but they'd probably need to be worried about more overall important things like coups.

[deathbringer]

Ahh the british army, long famed as the dumping ground for all the boy racers, BNP wannabes, yobs and football hooligans who want to upgrade from a beer bottle...bring back national service they say? most of the anti-social-order yobs are already in the cadets! (they used to go on my college bus and talk about thier army training and 'kicking the shit out of pakis' in the same sentence)

[fodders]

I am sure if Hitler or Saddam was put on trial he too would say , "It's only a small percentage of the army that did this, it's not our policy to do this"

[sargebaldy]

I think there's a big difference there Fods, insofar as Saddam and Hitler actually would have ordered them to do such things and would have been proud of it. I'm mostly pissed that this associates me with such grotesque cultural and racial intolerance, and that American taxpayers paid for everything these fuckups did over there. That in itself is enough for me to want us to pull the fuck out of there.

[myk]

The US could certainly pull out without much negative effect in the area. It might have a bigger negative effect in the US itself though... especially to some sectors. But in Iraq itself, with international cooperaion, a lot could be achieved; more than by the continuation of the occupation, most likely.

[Job]

sargebaldy said:

I'm mostly pissed that this associates me with such grotesque cultural and racial intolerance, and that American taxpayers paid for everything these fuckups did over there. That in itself is enough for me to want us to pull the fuck out of there.

[Jonathan]

Actually it looks like the British might not have been doing it after all

[fodders]

sargebaldy said:

I think there's a big difference there Fods, insofar as Saddam and Hitler actually would have ordered them to do such things and would have been proud of it. I'm mostly pissed that this associates me with such grotesque cultural and racial intolerance, and that American taxpayers paid for everything these fuckups did over there. That in itself is enough for me to want us to pull the fuck out of there.

Defense counsel for one of the accused soldiers claims that the soldiers had been ordered to "soften up" the detainees for interrogation. Moreover, private contractors allegedly were among those overseeing the interrogation process.

"The brazenness with which these soldiers conducted themselves, snapping photographs and flashing the 'thumbs-up' sign as they abused prisoners, suggests they felt they had nothing to hide from their superiors," said Kenneth Roth, executive director of Human Rights Watch. "Their superiors should be closely scrutinized to see whether they created an atmosphere of impunity that fostered this abuse."

The alleged involvement of private contractors is another dimension of the problem that merits investigation. Human Rights Watch is concerned that these contractors operate in Iraq with virtual impunity—exempt by the terms of their engagement with the U.S. military from prosecution by Iraqi courts, outside the military chain of command and thus ineligible for court-martial, and not subject to prosecution by U.S. courts. Under the Geneva Conventions, the United States nonetheless remains responsible for the actions of those running the detention facilities, be they regular soldiers, reservists or private contractors.

Ivan 'Chip' Frederick, 37, who is among six officers facing a court martial from the 800th brigade's 372nd unit, is a correctional officer who has been in the reserves for 20 years. His lawyer said "higher ranking people" taught him how to humiliate Arabs.

Sure sounds like it's Gov. policy.

[dsm]

If this is indeed the intention of the Government that Arab prisoners are mistreated, I'm just curious as to what they hope to accomplish with it.