Miscellaneous demos (part 1) [please post in part 3 instead]

[Qaatar]

SAV88 with his godly collection of hard-worked demos inspired me to record on a rather difficult map that I've been playing off and on for the past year or so. Don't think a UV demo has been recorded yet (only D-D's HMP), so here goes.

Elysion UV "Max" in 20:18

Reason "Max" is in quotations is because I only killed 604/605 monsters. One lone Archie just refuses to teleport. I've never given a shit about wad construction, so I'm not sure if it's a bug, or if I'm missing something in my route. Hopefully someone can fire up a wad program and enlighten me on this problem. If it's a bug, all's well. If it's my problem, then Andy can file this under "Other" in DSDA. Chances are, I'm not going to summon up the motivation to record on this map again, so I'm hoping that it's a bug. :)

ely01-2018.zip

[vdgg]

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=737378#post737378

Anima's HMP Max in 16:57 and

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=740832#post740832

gggmork's UV Max in 31:19

[Qaatar]

vdgg said:

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=737378#post737378

gggmork's UV Max in 31:19

Hmm...I never found GGG's demo. I used -skipsec to the end of his demo, and he had 604/605 as well. Looks like it's a bug?

Edit: forgot to note that I used the hud...too lazy to edit my previous post, as it was already edited, and these forums do not save retroactive edits.

[vdgg]

@Qaatar: There are many demos @DSDA which are marked as Max (by Opulent, perhaps) and are not true Max. Should I report every such a case?

As for Elysion, your demos count as Max unless someone proves otherwise, this is the simplest solution I think.



--------------------------------------------

The collection of 1996 WAD Max demos is huuuuge...

The Grim Reaper by Grzegorz Werner (9:26)
A Hidden Mountain Factory by Grzegorz Werner (7:55)
Osiris TC by Glen Payne & Marshal Bostwick, MAP05 (4:40)
The Dusk by Michal Mesko, MAP02 (1:57), MAP03 (2:46), MAP04 (3:07)
The Troopers' Playground by Matthias Worch, MAP07 (11:17)

and a whole max pack on Odyssey by T.Elliot Cannon with a total time above 29 minutes for 5 maps.

Some maps are still oldschool, some are surprisingly modern looking(dusk and odyssey). All are above average :) (yep, I read dew's comments on slugfest and his criticism was justified, so I try not to be too enthusiastic). I bet dew or Kimo or someone else could give dusk MAP02 a try and smash my record :)

1996.zip

[Qaatar]

vdgg said:

@Qaatar: There are many demos @DSDA which are marked as Max (by Opulent, perhaps) and are not true Max. Should I report every such a case?

As for Elysion, your demos count as Max unless someone proves otherwise, this is the simplest solution I think.

I was asking if there is a reason why the Archie doesn't teleport. Didn't ask you to report anything...I simply wasn't sure if it was because of my route (i.e. some linedef didn't trigger), or if it is the wad's problem.

Like I said earlier, I have no experience and simply don't care to learn about wad construction, so I can't tell simply from looking at my demo in prboom+.

Although, ggg's demo corroborated what I thought earlier, as he used a vastly different route, and the Archie still didn't teleport.

...and, if it's the wad's problem, all it takes (I think) is for someone experienced with wadmaking to look at the wad in some editor, and provide some info. Or, I'm mistaken, and it's not that easy to notice mistakes in wads?

[Never_Again]

For movie fans among you, here are the UV Speeds for two golden oldies from 1994:
Serenity v2.0 by Bjorn Hermans and Holger Nathrath - in 18:23 and
Eternity v1.1 (AKA Serenity II) by the same authors - in 23:33
The former is somewhat polished, the latter is a casual run that unexpectedly worked. Details in the TXTs.

[skepticist]

JADE EARTH FAILED MAX (1 monster missing) in 77:58.

Wow. For what i've wasted 80 minutes of my life, I ask you?

Map itself is easy, but way too long for no good reason cause all stays pretty much the same. Some dangerous spots here and there, first one is the containment area with 8 revenants kicking in. There's some things I don't like about this map aside from being repetetitve - some areas are too dark so i can barely see those spectres lurking, and WTF with that secret BFG? Did author really think that battling 3 archies with couple of other dangerous buddies near the end with plasma is a good challenge for those unaware of that super-secret, which is impossible to find on your first try as it not even shown via computer area map?..

Well, good luck to anyone who tries max it properly. If nobody else cares i'll try it myself later.

je-11754.zip

[Qaatar]

skepticist said:

JADE EARTH FAILED MAX (1 monster missing) in 77:58. ... Well, good luck to anyone who tries max it properly. If nobody else cares i'll try it myself later.

I care...I was the one who issued the request in the other thread. :)
Can't wait to watch this.

Edit: What I meant was, I care that you made this demo. Not going to attempt it myself...I gave up about 15 minutes in after getting bored, but it is fun to watch. Can't wait for a more optimized demo!

[skepticist]

When talking about care i meant other people that might have interest in recording a demo on this map. :)

My demo is slow and quiet, since I have neither natural dexterity nor enough practice here to play it agressively enough. I believe it's doable in less than 70 minutes, maybe even less than 60 with risky play and highly efficient BFG usage in the second half. But do not expect that from me, heh.

[skepticist]

Sooo... Here it is, a legit max now. It's funny that even though i messed up many things, it's still slighty faster than the previous recording. I got nervous after the failed AV jump... first time it happens to me, really, whadda hell was that? but oh well, at least i'm happy it's all done now.

je-11523.zip

[dew]

the dusk map04 uv max in 2:38

and again i steal vdgg's map. sorry, man. :) i liked your map02/03 runs, you clearly took your time with planning efficient weapon usage. i can't begin to imagine how that works on keyb-only in such narrow mazes. then you slipped in map04 and used weapons rather... at random, so here's incentive to try again. :)

oh.. and respect to skepticist for completing jade earth max.

dsk4-238.zip

[dew]

a semi-related issue: weapon pickup planning. i have noticed even seasoned max runners like vdgg or tatsurd often switch over to a newly picked weapon only to return to the old one or (even worse) switch to something else - all in the middle of fighting.

this is rather poor "micromanagement", so i wonder if you guys know that you don't have to switch to the newly picked weapon? all it takes is selecting another weapon while your old one is still going down. a simple example: i wield ssg in the middle of a close range fight. i need to pick up rl, but using it would be suicide, so i shoot ssg one more time, grab rl, press plasma and voila! i can continue with plasma immediatelly.

this allows much smoother pace and it's a common "skill" among duel players. it's also very easy to learn, so seeing a high-tier max specialist juggle weapons in the middle of a messy fight always leaves me kinda shocked. :)

[vdgg]

Ha, a nice max! It's the *second* plasma grab I missed, must take care about them... About the weapon switches, I must practice it, I knew skipping recently picked up weapon was possible, but is it always so? Let's say I have only SG, SSG (currently used) and have to pick up a RL. In dsk2-157 I pressed "3" but still had to wait, due to switching to SG, then to SSG.

[dew]

vdgg said:

Let's say I have only SG, SSG (currently used) and have to pick up a RL. In dsk2-157 I pressed "3" but still had to wait, due to switching to SG, then to SSG.

true. you can't switch to the same weapon as was equipped before and SG is considered a different weapon. the RL pickup only initiates the switch, but you override it by pressing 3 and that's ssg->sg. it's not useful in all situations and sometimes you have to adjust your approach to new weapons just to take advantage of the quick grab. all bugs in doom have their downside, almost as if they were planned into the greater balance too... :)

[SAV88]

A reply to a slightly old post.

Qaatar said:

Actually, I think it is precisely AdamH who devised the two-shot cyber strategy in the first place. If you watch his demo of 3-tech "vrgl_3t.wad" and Opulent's "op_801.wad," Hegyi utilizes the strategy well all the way back in 2001.

The oldest demo in which I noticed a two-BFG-frag of a non-distracted cyberdemon is Yashar "Gemini" Garibzadeh's PL31-UV (aka PL31-425), done 23.01.1999. In the past years, it was one of my favorite demos. Now I know much more LMPs of similar or even greater quality, but still consider Yashar's demo to be very good.

[Qaatar]

SAV88 said:

The oldest demo in which I noticed a two-BFG-frag of a non-distracted cyberdemon is Yashar "Gemini" Garibzadeh's PL31-UV (aka PL31-425), done 23.01.1999.

Ha, silly me...forgot about that great demo.

[SAV88]

skepticist said:

Sooo... Here it is, a legit max now. It's funny that even though i messed up many things, it's still slighty faster than the previous recording. I got nervous after the failed AV jump... first time it happens to me, really, whadda hell was that? but oh well, at least i'm happy it's all done now.

This is the longest single-level demo I have ever watched, but it's definitely not some lame sluggish mess (even though this UV Max can be done in under an hour). You played cautiously but without too many real slowdowns, your aiming was solid and didn't get too shaky towards the end.

Of course, the map itself is not nearly as great as such a long level could be, but nevertheless it was fun to watch your adventure :-) For example, I enjoyed the dramatic scene after a bit more than 40 minutes, when you was forced to get burned down to 1% health in order to get to that hidden bright room which holds the Big Fragging Gun.

[Qaatar]

SAV88 said:

This is the longest single-level demo I have ever watched, but it's definitely not some lame sluggish mess (even though this UV Max can be done in under an hour).

ToD's Nostril Caverns would love to change your mind. However, even 10000 speed playback on GlBoom+ couldn't keep my attention the whole time. Amazing playing though.

[Creaphis]

SAV88 said:

(even though this UV Max can be done in under an hour)

FYI, the UV SPEED can be done in about ten minutes. I'm working on it right now.

[SAV88]

Creaphis said:

I'm working on it right now.

Good luck! I really like Mega-Speedruns (long, tough runs that are done in the true UV Speed style, without overcautious and overshaky maneuvers).

[skepticist]

Today i gave JE another try, and it resulted in a decent improvement over my previous runs.

Some unlucky moments here, as usual, though. Cybers almost killed me, hehe. Thankfully these two medikits right after helped me out. Seriously, this environment is unfriendly for 2-shot kills - there's too little space. It happened only once to me that i killed them both in 4 shots without finishing off with SSG (in practice run with saves).

I think now i'm done with it. I doubt that a sub-hour playthrough will be possible for me without a lot of attempts, anyway. Hopefully Qaatar will be pleased with the result. ^_^

JADE EARTH UV-MAX in 64:40. Enjoy!

je-10440.zip

[Qaatar]

skepticist said:

Today i gave JE another try, and it resulted in a decent improvement over my previous runs.

I think now i'm done with it. I doubt that a sub-hour playthrough will be possible for me without a lot of attempts, anyway. Hopefully Qaatar will be pleased with the result. ^_^

JADE EARTH UV-MAX in 64:40. Enjoy!

Nice!

But come on...4:41 seconds isn't too much of an improvement for such a long map. I say you go for the 59:xx!

[Never_Again]

Heh. It was I who put up skepticist to this, and as the result I got more JE to watch than I bargained for. ;) The first run was really solid, very cool-headed play; too bad he missed an Imp at the start. The second run was as bad as the first was good. And the third demo seals it, I guess.
What puzzles me is that so far there's been no word from Jodwin in here, I thought he was an avid demohead ... Well, enough with JE already, I got a few demos of my own to post.


First, two recent /newstuff WADs.

A demopak for WIT by Boon Lived. The WAD was reviewed in detail (perhaps too much detail ;) in The /newstuff Chronicles #376. 14 demos in all, three require ZDoom v2.5.0 due to, well, the ZDoomisms.

 map   |  category | kills | secrets | time | engine
 ===================================================
 MAP01 |  NM Speed |     7 |   n/a   | 0:06 |  prB+
 MAP02 |   UV Max  |   100 |   100   | 1:30 |  prB+
 MAP03 |   UV Max  |   100 |   n/a   | 1:04 |  prB+
 MAP04 |   UV Max  |    95 |   100   | 1:32 |  prB+
 MAP05 |   UV Max  |   133 |   100   | 0:28 |  prB+
 MAP06 |   UV Max  |   100 |   100   | 2:36 |  prB+
 MAP07 | ITYTD Max |   100 |   100   | 3:01 |  prB+
 MAP08 |   UV Max  |   100 |   100   | 1:26 |  prB+
 MAP09 |   UV Max  |   100 |   100   | 2:41 |  prB+
 MAP10 |   UV Max  |   100 |    66   | 2:12 |  prB+
 MAP11 |   UV Max  |   100 |   100   | 2:10 |   ZD
 MAP12 |   UV Max  |   100 |   100   | 1:47 |   ZD
 MAP31 |   UV Max* |   100 |   100   | 4:23 |   ZD
 MAP13 |   UV Max  |   112 |   n/a   | 1:09 |  prB+
 ===================================================

The only maps of interest, IMO, are MAP09, MAP10 and MAP31.
Perhaps some modern Doom.god would care to try for a NM100S on MAP07? ;)

HELLBASE by StupidBunny (reviewed in the upcoming Chronicles #377) - UV Max in 19:33. We have a winner, folks! HB may not have as much (re)play value as JE but it beats JE in every other respect. I would have said "definitely Cacowards material", but we all know the treatment classic-style WADs get there.


And a few demos for the 1994 treasure chest.
After watching tatsurd-cacocaco's excellent new demos for UAC_DEAD I felt obliged to improve my old NM Speed to 3:35.
And last summer I suddenly remembered a WAD I hadn't played for some ten years - TEST2KIL by Matthew G. Hooper - and recorded three demos for it:

 filename | category  | kills | secrets | time
 ---------------------------------------------
 test2kuv |   UV Max  |  100  |   100   | 9:46
 test2knm |  NM Speed |   38  |     0   | 4:41
 test2ksp |  NM Speed |   23  |     0   | 3:27

Watch this one for the sexy secret, if nothing else. :P

[vdgg]

Stuff from 1997.

Mordeth by Gaston Lahaut - an iconoclastic UV Run in 20:59

The Beginning of the end, part 1 by Emil Brundage:

1st Episode UV Run in 18:02
E2M6 Max in 5:31

1997.zip

[Never_Again]

A new Mordeth demo! Looking forward to watching it.
Most of the levels I've been recording on lately are huge, with the demos going over 20 minutes. Here's a short violent one for one of the WADs from /newstuff:
Revolting Rocks (revro.wad) by Khorus - UV Max in 2:36.

[Phml]

Revro UV Max in 2:24

rev-224.zip

[Phml]

Revro UV Max in 2:15

rev-215.zip

[Never_Again]

Your approach is so different from mine it's like you're playing another map altogether. ;) It would have never occurred to me to play it this way. Good work, Phml.

Edit: I did something different today: played a quality ZDoom map. That's not a typo: apparently, there are good ZDoom maps out there. This one is brand new, still locked in /newstuff - Valhalla by Ed C. An amazing map that looks like a cross between Quake(2) and DOOM but plays like DOOM. It may be the single best reason to download ZDoom today. UV Max in 10:59 - ZDoom v2.5.0 (latest version) required.

[TendaMonsta]

Here's the demo without voodoo in it.

re01-157.zip

[Creaphis]

So, I mentioned in some thread or other that I was working on a Jade Earth UV SPEED demo, and that I'd spent 20+ hours on it without recording a demo that was up to my standards. The truth is that I spent 20+ hours without ever reaching the exit alive. It's not that this level is especially difficult, but that it has a very low "mistake tolerance." If you make any little mistakes when trying to run this level you will suffer dearly for it, and the thing about mistakes is that I'm really bad at not making them.

Jade Earth UV SPEED in 9:33

For lack of a better idea I've stuck to skepticist's naming convention.

je-00933.zip