Quake and Quake 2

[DooMBoy]

I believe Quake2 gets my vote.
It's not that Quake was a bad game, it's a very good game IMO, it's just that Quake2 was more believable in terms of atmosphere (at some points it really felt like I was in the game). Quake was definitely the scarier of the two, but QII had better graphics, sound, map design and all the rest. Quake was like Doom in terms of simplicity, but that was part of the problem. You basically just ran around blowing up stuff and getting the hell scared out of you when a Shambler sprang from the shadows into your path. Quake II had a more consistent, purposeful feel to it than the original, IMO, although the space marine theme has been done to death. Quake had a OK selection of weapons, QuakeII had some very cool weapons (I love QII's Super Shotgun, heh). Quake had some memorable enemies, QuakeII did as well, but Doom beats them both.

[dr_st]

Grazza said:

In Heretic, they did (only one of each item could be carried to the next level).

My mistake, then. I guess I barely remember Heretic... But I think in Hexen there was no such thing. Not on the easier skill settings, at least.

[Ichor]

In Hexen, you could carry all of your items from one hub to another, except the Wings of Wrath, which are removed. Also, you can hold more things (25 of each item instead of 16 in Heretic).

[dsm]

If you don't want the game to be dead easy there's a simple solution to those inventory games out there:
Use the damn items before you get to the bosses - it's not hard to do.

I've never stored the powerups all the way up to the Makron, I usually try to use them as quickly and conveniently after I picked them up as possible, because, as you said, it's ridiculously easy.

[BlueSonnet]

Quake is cool but in terms of which is better, Quake 2 by a long shot, despite the fact that there isn't a close combat weapon.

dsm said:

I've never stored the powerups all the way up to the Makron, I usually try to use them as quickly and conveniently after I picked them up as possible, because, as you said, it's ridiculously easy.

Heh, i had quad damage and invulnerability this one time i fought him. The poor bastard didn't stand a chance. Way more fun to play him without those.

[Ichor]

But only slightly harder. Even in The Reckoning he isn't that tough without using any items. However, you will certainly need all those items at the end of Ground Zero when you fight the Black Widow.

[Vile]

I seem to remember that the Black Widow's first form copied the invincibility or quad powerup if you tried to use it against her. I just saved them for the second form.

[darknation]

I can sit and stare at the Quake sky for hours. Man, it's an awesome sky.

[The Ultimate DooMer]

dsm said:

If you don't want the game to be dead easy there's a simple solution to those inventory games out there:
Use the damn items before you get to the bosses - it's not hard to do.

Better still, use them as soon as you get them - that's what I do in Quake 2 to make things a little harder.

Ichor said:

But only slightly harder. Even in The Reckoning he isn't that tough without using any items. However, you will certainly need all those items at the end of Ground Zero when you fight the Black Widow.

It doesn't actually make that much difference, as you can't kill them in one go, even if you used all the items at once. Thankfully the railgun comes into it's own at that point, making it do-able.

[toxicfluff]

Quake by a long shot for me. I prefer the sounds, the levels, the speed and the physics. Quake2 just felt kind of generic to me.

//prompted by scabbed: Oh yeah, the monsters too.

[Dron]

darknation said:

I can sit and stare at the Quake sky for hours. Man, it's an awesome sky.

http://members.tripod.co.uk/Enjay001/Qsky.zip For zdoom of course!

[Scabbed Angel]

Ct_red_pants said:

Quake. Buy quite a large margin.

Quake was the last of id's game that had great character design, imho. The amount of suckage of the Stroggs (or whatever they were called) is only slightly outdone by that of a vetran porn star.

Thank God for D3 which, to me, looks more like a sequel to Quake 1 than a remake of Doom. The security/chainsaw zombie is the new ogre, the pinky is the new fiend, the new spider chic is the new vore. God I loved the abundance of grey, blue, and brown... *reflects nostolgicly*

[TGB]

Scabbed Angel said:

Quake was the last of id's game that had great character design, imho. The amount of suckage of the Stroggs (or whatever they were called) is only slightly outdone by that of a vetran porn star.

*sound of coffee violently exiting nasal cavity*

[Captain Red]

darknation said:
I can sit and stare at the Quake sky for hours. Man, it's an awesome sky.

The day I learnt to make my own quake sky...

It's incredible how hypnotizing two layers of 64X64 textures with 256 colours can look.

or maybe I was just a simple child.

[darknation]

Here's what I want to do. I want to go into a Quake deathmatch. And I want to strip down to a loincloth, sit down on the floor with a begging bowl, and call after the lunatics with the plasma guns as they flee past me, saying, "It is all samsara, it is all an illusion, my friend" - for truly it is, pixels on a screen. "Reject the fleeting temptations here, what profiteth you another kill? There is another path."

And I want him to turn, think twice - and then I will smile benevolently as he tosses a rocket my way, blows me to my reincarnation as my peaceful self - and he runs on, and kills and kills again, quad damage, armour, another clip, heal and heal and blammo to the floor - until finally he turns, lays down his gun, and sits by me, asking me to teach. And one by one, the players shall gather by me, sitting, assuming the lotus position, touching the ground in the earth witness gesture, letting their thoughts still, contemplating that strange Quake sky as it streams overhead, peaceful, in unity, transforming this one, small, cyberrealm of unending war and mayhem into harmony.

I wanna be a shooter bhoddisatva, baby.

- greg costikyan

[Naked Snake]

TGB said:

*sound of coffee violently exiting nasal cavity*

You mean "SQUIRK"?

[DooMBoy]

It's true that Quake's sky is quite cool to look at, but what's up with the fact that it can be shot?

[Captain Red]

That only happens when the level isn't vis'd properly.

[dr_st]

The Ultimate DooMer said:

Better still, use them as soon as you get them - that's what I do in Quake 2 to make things a little harder.

Better yet, don't use them at all.

[DEMOn]

Ct_red_pants said:

That only happens when the level isn't vis'd properly.

or the depth of the 'water' brush isn't deep enough.

[Chopkinsca]

I thought quake 2 was a great game. I find that most true 3d games lack something, I'm not sure what, but quake 2 had it.
Maybe it was the fact that you don't have to hit the monsters in different body parts to do different amounts of damage. Or maybe it was the weapon balance. You wouldn't be using the same weapon all the time. I don't like when you pick up a stronger weapon and never go back to the previous weapons you had.


In hexen I would save all the items I had, only using quartz flasks, flechettes. I saved the krater of mights for the battle with korax. This is on skill 5 that I do this.

[Uncle 80]

Quake 2. Cooler weapons, graphics, levels, gameplay etc. than the
first Quake had. Also, i find it to be rather immersive. As for the monsters, "just because you are a character doesn't mean you have character" - they are rather dull.
As for heXen 2 and the inventory debate: I *still* have a really hard
time killing Eidolon, even with a ton of Tomes and Icons stored up.
Q2's Makron, however, is still a wuss.

[Scabbed Angel]

KoRn said:

You wouldn't be using the same weapon all the time. I don't like when you pick up a stronger weapon and never go back to the previous weapons you had.

One thing I have to give Q2 props for: the shotgun didn't suck an unbelievable amount of ass. How, after Doom (and it breaks my heart to say this about quake) could id do such a terrible job on quake's shotguns?

After my prevuous statement I feel the need to list the pros and cons of each game:

QUAKE I
PROS
-Awesome creature design
-Immersive, gothic, demonic atmosphere
-NIN symbols on nailgun ammo, damn that was cool
-First game by id, imo, that was really gritty... it took itself more seriously that Doom to me.
-Level design that was interesting enough that it made the same old get the key find a door thing endurable, even enjoyable.
-Trent Reznor did the SFX
-last of the Doom-style text storyline
-nail gun!
-modding
-First great multiplayer
-No Stroggs
-Cool looking bosses, one could argue that they were creative.... which leads me to the


CONS
-Shitty bosses, (in terms of fighting them...wait)
-No Open GL, well not until the mods
-No real story line... an id game, a rehash of Doom
-Could have afforded to add a few more colors... I still like it though.
-Terrible shotguns
-No damage detail

QUAKE II
Pros
-Awesome shotgun
-Open Gl and sofware rendering
-Raingun
-Semi cool BFG
-Colored lighting
-Damage decals
-intersting animations; stroggs checking guns, flexing etc
-more intesrting death animations
-guns were more reaslitc; not in middle of screen, cerain guns do not stay static when fired, etc.
-psuedo physics
-Actual story, cutscenes (at the time this was pretty cool)
-music was more MP driven

CONS
-Not Quake I
-Stroggs...
-sci fi atmosphere.. no more pentagrams : (
-no longer Gothic architecture
-colored lighting... too neon
-railgun fanboys
-Raven's making a sequel to it
-Stroggs
-music not as ambient

[wildweasel]

-No Open GL, well not until the mods

Just replace the OPENGL32.DLL in your Quake directory with that of your Windows/System directory. Then it'll work without mods.

[Arno]

Back in the early days I had lots of fun with Quake2 CTF.
"The Edge" is also one of the best multiplayer maps I have ever seen.

[dsm]

Scabbed Angel said:

CONS
-Not Quake I

Y'know, there are other things in the world than Quake 1. But perhaps you mean that it sucks that the plot and setting has nothing to do with Quake 1 in which case I agree.

-Stroggs...

Stupid thing to put on a "cons" list - what if the Strogg had happened to kick ass (like, what if they had made the Strogg some kind of demon-worshipping gothic aliens like Quake's?)? I know they didn't, but if you wanted to sound less like a chump, you shoulda written something that explains why you don't like them.
I happen to think the concept of an alien race consisting of various alien races fused with cybernetics is a really awesome idea, so that con point of yours seemed pretty insulting to me.

-Raven's making a sequel to it

I don't see why this makes Quake 2 suck even more - maybe it's because you can't accept the simple fact that a lot of people actually liked Quake 2 (obviously, otherwise the sales figures wouldn't be speaking in favour of a sequel to it).

[Scabbed Angel]

dam, I'm shocked. Typically you know when I'm being facetious. I guess I forget this is a forum sometimes and humor gets lost in the translation. As far as your first point though, you are correct. I guess I wouldn't have been so disapointed if I hadn't liked and been impressed with Quake so much. It shouldn't have been a sequel so much as its own franchise.

The Raven thing: just me pissing and moaning that it is a sequel to the second one and not the first... but as I made a point in an earlier post, D3 seems to be more of a sequel to Quake 1 than Doom with its atmosphere and creature design... I'll stop bitching. : ) Sorry to be an annoyance, hope you see now that I was joking.

[Sharessa]

I like the stroggs, and I thought their animations were very cool for the time.