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killer9

Which is more half assed: specter or hell knight?

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Which demon is more of a half assed copy of another demon, the specter, or the hell knight?

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Fredrik said:

Revenants are half-assed copies of my brother.


QUICK, TELL ME! Does your brother wear red pants or has he just got gory exposed flesh all over his thighs?

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Hell knight i guess. Spectres can be fun in right places. Dark that is. Knights mostly are just annoying. Why not just put Barons, they're not that much tougher.

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Fredrik said:

Oh by the way, this does not seem particularly Doom 3-related to me.


What the?

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It didn't fir in that forum, so he moved it to this one.

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The Hell Knight, easily. The spectre was just an invisible Demon. The Hell Knight could have been given new sprites rather than an upper body recolour. Very Weak, but what do I expect... Doom 2 is a rush product so it has rushed enemies.

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Not only that, the Spectre was in the original Doom. Actually, the worst monster would have to be the boss of episode 4.

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The boss of Ep. 4? The SPider Mastermind?

I'm going to have to agree and say it's the Hell Knight. Although since they are half the strength of the Baron, facing two Knights can be more dangerous than one Baron, so it's a tough call I suppose.

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killer9 said:

Which demon is more of a half assed copy of another demon, the specter, or the hell knight?

I don't really care, except that archie is a half assed copy of the imp.

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I think the Specter is a nice variation of the Demon. It's too bad there aren't more variations of existing demons, it could really be fun. How about an Imp that's ten times stronger? Or a Cacodemon that has the speed of lightning? You can really make interesting things with that, I don't mind if they're 'half-assed'.

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ducon said:

I don't really care, except that archie is a half assed copy of the imp.

Uh... wtf? The archvile is a copy of the imp? Care to elaborate?

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Yes, the Spiderdemon. Episode 4 would have been a whole lot better if they had used a whole new boss monster instead of the Spiderdemon again.

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Spectres are awesome.

Seriously, In the old days, when all I had was the shareware Episode 1, Spectres simply blew me away. (hey, I was like 12 at the time).

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I think the HK should have been given wings like all the BoHs seem to have now. The Spector should be able to go through walls.

They are both half-arsers.

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I think the spectre.
It's exactly a copy of the demon, except invisible (fuzzy or translucent depending on Your port). ID cared to recolor the baron to make the hell knight, but the spectre is an unchanged (graphically) demon sprite.

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Janderson said:

I think the HK should have been given wings

Only if it had been a completely different monster. Such a heavily built monster with little flappy wings just there for decoration looks silly - and would be partially assed indeed.

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Spectres rule. Hell Knight's are about 90% assed. I didnt like them when I first saw them, but they make for a good challenge.

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I always thought the hell knight was lame. If they were adding one more new monster they could've made unique graphics for it. At least spectre just reuses the demon sprites.

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I think the spectre was really creative, and I think it must have been hard to do that fuzzy effect.

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I actually think the hell knight is a great monster. It packs the punch of a baron (so it's dangerous), but doesn't have as many hitpoints. This means that it can be used early on in a level when the player may only have a shotgun. It won't take forever to kill it in this situation. Come up against a baron with just a shotgun and the gameplay's gonna get pretty boring and drawn out. I used loads of hell knights in Decade, but only maybe 5 or 6 barons (or maybe even less, I can't remember).

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The spectre is more unneccessary than the hell knight IMO - it's got exactly the same properties as a demon apart from the fuzz, which is only good in one type of area (crap in all the rest, as they're effectively the same as a demon). So unneccessary in fact, I don't use them now (and never have since I converted to ZDoom).

Hell knights have many more uses compared to the baron because of the reduced toughness - early shotgun-only battles, berserk fests, confined spaces, mass brawls and traps full of 'em (all of which they work better than the baron). And of course as a baron's replacement on lower skill levels or early maps.

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Hell knights are good enemies, but the fact still stands that id could have at least changed the sprites to where they weren't just brown Barons. Pretty lame, and pretty lazy on id's part.

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No complaints on either case here.

The Hell Knight even has modified sounds, it's not just a color change. Plus the idea of monster ranks in the same species (or something like that) is not bad at all. The Spectre is fine; they made use of the nifty semi-invisibilty on a monster as well as on the Player; I'd say a Demon variant is the most applicable for this effect, since it's otherwise a pretty simple monster.

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