OMFG JDOOM OWNS!!

[Envid]

Nanami said:

Heh.

That part wasnt refutted, Im talking about the majority.

[Epyo]

Point at something that needs proof, we'll link you up dawg ;)

[Envid]

Nanami said:

if jDoom can't run Action Doom, it's clearly not the most superior port.

nuff said?

[Envid]

Darkman 4 said:

Look, you do realize that if you just made a normal topic explaining why you think JDoom is better than other posts (instead of nameing your toic OMFG JDOOM OWNS and said that JDoom was ownage) and didn't sound like a Counter Strike kiddie/ graphics whore who can't bare to play games that, god forbid, have sprites instead of models, this would've never happened.

EDIT: Grammar

this guy is just a flammer lol, all he does is cry about my wording

[chilvence]

Envid said:

Check the forums on jdoom INCLUDING this one and say im making it up? Or are you just as one-sided as everyone else in here?

Are you blind? Do you know how many textures in the texture pack you can credit to me? Do you realise I have about 300 megs of work in progress texture resources just sitting on my hard drive waiting to see the light of day?

[Envid]

Nanami said:

If you think something is better just by graphics, you're wrong. You can't just keep coming out with a prettier and prettier Pong. I don't think jDoom offers any gameplay or editing advantages over ZDoom.

Although not JUST by graphics, that doesnt mean editing features arent available for jdoom. Multicolored lights are NOT available for zdoom as they are for jdoom if you want 1 example.

[Envid]

chilvence said:

Are you blind? Do you know how many textures in the texture pack you can credit to me? Do you realise I have about 300 megs of work in progress texture resources just sitting on my hard drive waiting to see the light of day?

Im not saying that YOU have a 386....wow this is such a sensitive forum. It was a general comment. Not to anyone in specific, as Ive seen alot of forums about jdoom complaining about the resources it takes, compatability, slow downs, memory hogging...etc.

Props to anyone who did any bit of work via not only jdoom, but zdoom alike. (this is getting tedious restating the same crap you guys overlook and still bring up)

[chilvence]

Envid said:

Im not saying that YOU have a 386....

Whats my computer got to do with anything? The only reason people are even bothering to argue with you is to point out how obviously misinformed you are.

[chilvence]

Envid said:

Ive seen alot of forums about jdoom complaining about the resources it takes, compatability, slow downs, memory hogging...etc.

And I jump on threads like that with equal distaste.

Edit: stupid me. quote!=edit.

[Epyo]

Can somebody tell me how to work via jdoom or zdoom? I'm having a hard time!

[Envid]

chilvence said:

Whats my computer got to do with anything? The only reason people are even bothering to argue with you is to point out how obviously misinformed you are.

That quote was based on the 386/33 quote and your poll you want to take correlating with why you would even use that quote.

misinformed about the editing of a map yes.... as far as game port engine i have been informed about the mapmaking ability of zdoom. Yet just because I know how to program games in basic doesnt mean I will get a player's attention no matter how good the story, edit-ability is.

If graphics arent that important (ive never knocked on gameplay at all during this forum, you guys just took offense off the bat)why are 3d gaming engines trying to achieve the most "real" look possible?

wolfenstein - isnt that cute?
doom 2 - decent for it's day at least as cartoon looking as wolfenstein
Return to Wolfenstein - Nice textures but polygon looking
Doom 3 - textured, enhanced models, bump mapped, highly detailed

and of course doom3 will fade out with a replaced engine with more options, gameplay, and graphics/special effects.

[Envid]

chilvence said:

And I jump on threads like that with equal distaste.

Edit: stupid me. quote!=edit.

I care?

[chilvence]

Epyo - First install them together, then run them at the same time and it will create a fusion of the ultimatest port ever and its called the secret Voltron port and it runs quake1, 2, 3 ,4 maps

[Cyb]

Envid said:

If graphics arent that important (ive never knocked on gameplay at all during this forum, you guys just took offense off the bat)why are 3d gaming engines trying to achieve the most "real" look possible?

nobody is talking about modern games here except you. I am saying graphics are not important IN DOOM.

nobody here plays a 10 fucking year old game because it looks great, in fact we play it in spite of the fact that it doesn't. please understand that. jdoom's graphics are impressive, yes, but nobody here cares about that to as much of an extent as you seem to think. we play doom for fun.

that aside, graphics are nice, but if a game is awful to play it will not make out. see: enter the matrix, black & white, alice. on the flipside there are some games which are beloved such as GTA3 and counter-strike which have badly dated graphics (even at the time of their release) but people still play they because THEY ARE FUN TO PLAY.

[Ichor]

Envid said:

I care?

Apparently someone cares, because look at his title.

[Envid]

Cyb said:

nobody is talking about modern games here except you. I am saying graphics are not important IN DOOM.

nobody here plays a 10 fucking year old game because it looks great, in fact we play it in spite of the fact that it doesn't. please understand that. jdoom's graphics are impressive, yes, but nobody here cares about that to as much of an extent as you seem to think. we play doom for fun.

that aside, graphics are nice, but if a game is awful to play it will not make out. see: enter the matrix, black & white, alice. on the flipside there are some games which are beloved such as GTA3 and counter-strike which have badly dated graphics (even at the time of their release) but people still play they because THEY ARE FUN TO PLAY.

It would take a creative (noncreative?) person to allow doom to not be "fun" to play. More like a downgrade which I dont see how jdoom does. As far as why you like it is your deal, Just as much as I like the new port because it brings back the old days of doom when I first bought it. Why modify perfection? So you can have a bunch of unrealistic looking sprites that you "changed" to show originality of an already top selling game?

Your creativity is your deal, I dont think the game was originally purchased for editing, or your creativity thus making it only your opinion. The graphics are substantially better than zdoom's. Maybe I should make a side by side comparison of the 2 just to show you how many pixels you can count.

[Epyo]

Envid said:

The graphics are substantially better than zdoom's. Maybe I should make a side by side comparison of the 2 just to show you how many pixels you can count.

We understand and fully agree that Jdoom has better graphics than Zdoom's. However, we fully don't care.

[chilvence]

Envid said:

why are 3d gaming engines trying to achieve the most "real" look possible?

Graphics probably intrest publishers alot more than game concepts, because they know there's always going to be a large market of shallow bottom feeding sheepscum to buy the next work of real-time CGI thats been tacked onto the Doom concept.

Now something intresting isnt there?

Indeed, most of the games that have strayed from this simple model, for example Hidden and Dangerous, or System Shock 2, were some of the most highly acclaimed titles of the last decade! And yet neither of them sold as much as they deserved to, because gamers were too busy stuffing their eyes full of candy.

I'm not about to say that we shouldnt be improving graphics technology, because I like to see graphics get better as much as anyone! The last game I bought was Far Cry, because I was glad to see the industry was cabable of making something that wasnt dreary looking. But clearly you have a bias, since you cant even acknowledge what use Zdoom has. (apart from one cursory comment that I dont quite believe was sincere)

BTW, thanks for the title <modname>, heh.

[Envid]

When have I "not" grasped the concept of what zdoom can offer over other ports?

The comment was indeed sincere. I know how much work goes in to making a map and it takes alot of frustrating upon frustrating hours to create what you have invisioned....and even then lacks due to the limitations.

[Envid]

Epyo said:

We understand and fully agree that Jdoom has better graphics than Zdoom's. However, we fully don't care.

Why so many complaints if you dont "care"? lol After all this time you finally realize that my opinion of why jdoom dominates or owns is just an opinion, nothing more. REGARDLESS OF THE MAP EDITING FEATURES<<<<<<<<my opinion....again

but then again.... who cares? right?

[chilvence]

Envid said:

....and even then lacks due to the limitations.

Limitations that are alot more apparent in jDoom, lol! Therein lies what you dont see.

[Envid]

chilvence said:

Limitations that are alot more apparent in jDoom, lol! Therein lies what you dont see.

Im not looking at it from a "creation" perspective but more as a "gaming" perspective.

gameplay from the best selling 3d shooter of it's time
advanced snazzied up graphics to enhance it's "feel"
doom2 resurrected basicly

Even though there are limitations to regular doom2 map editing. Im sure that zdoom's port has many limitations as well.

there is infact always a limit to creativity via a parameter based 3d engine.

[Darkman 4]

Envid said:

REGARDLESS OF THE MAP EDITING FEATURES<<<<<<<<my opinion....again

Nice ego, buddy. You're not the god of Doom. You're opinion does not matter at all.

[Epyo]

Ok, so we are getting rid of pwads, wads, and editing, strictly talking about playing the original doom and doom 2. You say jdoom is better than zdoom to use to do this. In your opinion. That's all you are saying correct?

Well why didn't you say so in the first place and save an 117 post thread!

[chilvence]

Envid said:

Why so many complaints if you dont "care"? lol After all this time you finally realize that my opinion of why jdoom dominates or owns is just an opinion, nothing more. REGARDLESS OF THE MAP EDITING FEATURES<<<<<<<<my opinion....again

but then again.... who cares? right?

Just try and picture this scenario. You walk into the middle of a dark alleyway in the middle of New York, and shout at the top of your voice:

"OMFG WHITE PEOPLE OWNS!!*


*which is just my opinion and I also have just as much respect for what black people are capable of I just tend to avoid them out of principle"

Most rational people would assume you are a rascist and then kick you in the teeth. If you are lucky, you might end up in hospital :)

[Darkman 4]

Envid said:

this guy is just a flammer lol, all he does is cry about my wording

No I'm not. I'm just saying you would've gotten much more positive responces if you had followed my suggestions instead of soudning like some n00b who thinks that graphics are the only thing that can mkae games good.

[DaniJ]

I'm going to generalize and state - there are two types of people in the Doom community.

Candidate A
Doomers who like playing DOOM. To me, means intense action and the classic gameplay I love. I don't want Strife/Hexen/Mario/etc in my Doom wads. Nor do I want a scripted story, modified weapons or any other crap. I've played through the original IWADs hundreds of times and I'll never tire of standard Doom pwads.

This type of player is much more likely to enjoy jDoom.

Candidate B
Doomers who are bored with standard Doom. I've played the IWADS to death and Doom doesn't cut it for me anymore. I don't care what people put in their pwads as long as it's new and/or creative. I like to see how far people can push the engine with new ideas/scenarios/concepts.

This type of player is much more likely to enjoy Zdoom.

I'm in the A camp. Always was and always will be. I enjoyed playing wads like Void and Daedlus but they aint Doom.

Basically it comes down to what constitues Doom to YOU. For me it's the gameplay and the setting.

What I have noticed is that a lot of people here seem just as uninformed about jDoom and it's features as Envid is of Zdoom.

[Graf Zahl]

DaniJ said:

What I have noticed is that a lot of people here seem just as uninformed about jDoom and it's features as Envid is of Zdoom.

That's simply because most JDoom users fit in your A category. By definition those aren't very much interested in enhanced editing features and logically there isn't much content being developed for JDoom. (Maps of course - I don't count graphics resources in this context.)

And yes, I count myself in the B category. Most new 'classic style' maps are just variations on a theme that's been done to death. I just prefer maps that try to do use Doom's resources in a different environment - but it doesn't mean that I discard 'classic' maps if they play well.

[Vegeta]

Jdoom is fun to go and look how everything looks with the new upgraded graphics. But then, there's allways the same kind of maps (press a switch and open a door, get the yellow key and some monsters are teleported near you, then open the yellow door and find the exit to the next map).

Zdoom is fun to go and play all kind of unpredictable maps (destroy a computer, then lights turn red, a scripted cinematics starts showing how some zombies are alerted by your move, a message says that the security laser wall is disabled in another map, you can go there from diferent routes, once in that map you check with a camera the room with the laser disabled and you find that a cyberdemon with a squad of demons is awaiting for you).

Jdoom has superior graphics, but Zdoom has allways new experiences to entertein the players.

Jdoom = pretty graphics
Zdoom = fun maps

[Cyb]

Envid said:

It would take a creative (noncreative?) person to allow doom to not be "fun" to play. More like a downgrade which I dont see how jdoom does. As far as why you like it is your deal, Just as much as I like the new port because it brings back the old days of doom when I first bought it. Why modify perfection? So you can have a bunch of unrealistic looking sprites that you "changed" to show originality of an already top selling game?

I dunno, you're the one taking screenshots in 1600x1400 with hires texture packs and MD2s and dynamic lighting, NONE of which were present in the original Doom. IMO when I play jdoom with all those resources enabled it feels just as unlike Doom as any number of conversions for ZDoom which aim to change Doom in one way or another. That seems like modifying 'perfection' to me, albeit keeping the same gameplay (which has been done to death, at this point I need a truly excellent looking or very fun map to not get bored with 'classic' gameplay).

Envid said:

Your creativity is your deal, I dont think the game was originally purchased for editing, or your creativity thus making it only your opinion. The graphics are substantially better than zdoom's. Maybe I should make a side by side comparison of the 2 just to show you how many pixels you can count.

No, most people didn't purchase Doom to edit it, that was hardly my point. My point that the very thing that keeps it alive 10 years after it was released (10 years in ancient in gameing terms) is the fact that the source was released and people have a ton of new options. I don't know when the last time you edited for vanilla Doom was, but it's extremly limiting not only in terms of making sure your map doesn't crash the exe because of visplane limits and such, but also has only a handful of possible linedef types because each one was hard coded into the game as id needed it. I can tell you without a doubt that were there no source ports which concentrated on the editing aspects of the game (from Boom to MBF to ZDoom; those are the three I have utilitzed) rather than improving the looks greatly and adding some editing features as an afterthought I would not be editing today because the original exe is much, much too limiting for my tastes.

And finally, in regards to your last statement, I HAVE ALREADY SAID JDOOM LOOKS BETTER THAN ZDOOM A NUMBER OF TIMES. I AM NOT SAYING IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM THAT ZDOOM'S SOFTWARE RENDERER LOOKS BETTER THAN JDOOM'S HARDWARE ONE. Please, please get it through your head that I don't really care about that because jDoom simply does not offer as many editing features as ZDoom does at this point. That's purely my perogative, and I'm in no way suggesting that you should think in the same exact way as I do, I'm just telling you why I think JDoom is superior to ZDoom. This is, after all, an internet discussion forum. You stated your opinion and I am stating my own opinion which contrasts yours. I'm not at all saying you should love ZDoom and forget about JDoom. Whatever port you want to like best is 100% your call and has no effect on me at all, and likewise my preference on your life.