The end of E1M8 - theories

[Trilinear]

Was reading through the "Favourite map of all time" thread and noticed mje's post about E1M8. Once the Barons are killed and the player is transported into the dark room where he is immediately attacked by a multitute of nasties - mje observed that the player dies and goes to hell.

I had never considered this, but it would make sense because of the subsequent hell-themed episodes. I just re-read the ending text for Knee-Deep In The Dead: "What the hell is this? it's not supposed to end this way!" This kind of shock and surprise at the reward for "beating the big badasses" would corroborate the going-to-hell theory. Especially "now you're stuck on the shores of hell".

Of course, this would then bring up the question of resurrection once you beat the Spiderdemon on Dis. If you were indeed dead during both episode 2 and 3, when you step through the portal and return to earth - you are once again manifested into reality?

However, it has been pointed out previously by a number of other members pointed out that you do not in fact die when being attacked in the dark room. Rather, your health is decreased a great deal, but you are still alive when the end story text rolls. How could the player die and go to hell if he is not actually killed at the end of the episode?

Then, I got interested, and did a search through the forums for references to this. Enjay, on a thread years ago, claimed that you got teleported to Deimos immediately and are then struck by a surprise ambush. Other theories suggest that it's an hallicination (unlikely), or that the dark room is actually still on Phobos.

Personally, I subscribe to the theory of immediate teleporation to Deimos. Perhaps the surprise ambush is serving as a teaser for players to purchase the game and continue the battle.

However, many people I've talked to about this had absolutely no idea what the hell (pun intended) happened at the end of the episode. So I don't think id's "teaser" strategy worked as intended. Though perhaps, some people may have bought the game just to find out what exactly did happen at E1M8 out of confusion or curiosity :)

Your thoughts and theories?

[Graf Zahl]

No need for theories: The end text says it all:

Once you beat the big badasses and
clean out the moon base you're supposed
to win, aren't you? Aren't you? Where's
your fat reward and ticket home? What
the hell is this? It's not supposed to
end this way!

It stinks like rotten meat, but looks
like the lost Deimos base. Looks like
you're stuck on The Shores of Hell.
The only way out is through.

[Trilinear]

Graf Zahl said:

No need for theories: The end text says it all:

Perhaps, but I don't think it was that clear in the ending text. Especially since it made no direct reference to the dark room, and the fact that the room did not appear on E2M1.

At least, it wasn't obvious to young persons like myself at the time - who were presumably the target audience of the game. At the time, I initially thought it was some kind of punishment because I had done something wrong by stepping into the teleporter. It was all very mysterious!

For a game as absorbing and atmospheric as Doom, I was quite disappointed at the ameturish vagueness of the ending text storylines. It wasn't until years later that I could actually understand them properly (OK, I was 9/10 at the time alright? :)

[Ichor]

You don't actually die in that map. Instead, it ends once your health gets low enough. Perhaps you materialized somewhere outside, then you were ambused, left for dead, and after you recovered, you made your way into the base (from right behind the starting point).


Nah...

[Naked Snake]

Thanks for the inspiration.

I know it doesn't really explain anything, but I just thought this would make a cool fic.

[Trilinear]

BBG said:

Thanks for the inspiration.

I know it doesn't really explain anything, but I just thought this would make a cool fic.

Nice, a good read. Hmmmm, perhaps the attack was indeed a hallucination the marine experienced whilst travelling through the gate.

Maybe the room represents an intermediary environment between the starting point and the gate's destination. Kind of like the "star tunnel" effect of the Stargate film/TV series.

Perhaps the demon attack is a side-effect when using the gate because of it's interference with the hell dimension? This would explain why there is no reference to the room on E2M1 (note that your health is still at 100% upon starting the episode though, perhaps the marine was healed automatically upon materialisation?)

Perhaps I'm reading into this too much? :)

[Naked Snake]

Trilinear said:

Nice, a good read. Hmmmm, perhaps the attack was indeed a hallucination the marine experienced whilst travelling through the gate.

In my story, he's not hallucinating. He got beat down, plain and simple. How he ended up on Deimos is anyone's guess ;)

[Infinite Ammunition]

BBG said:

In my story, he's not hallucinating. He got beat down, plain and simple. How he ended up on Deimos is anyone's guess ;)

Hitchhiking?

[Amaster]

Infinite Ammunition said:

Hitchhiking?

Nah, he walked.

I never really thought much about how the end of E1M8 fit into the story. I'd always thought of it as nothing more than a teaser, or simply an interesting an unique way of ending the episode. But if I had to make a guess about it, I'd say he was currently in some sort of transport along with some hellspawn (who dont make it through).

[Grazza]

It would certainly be a long space walk, even if achieving escape velocity would be quite easy.

http://www.campusprogram.com/reference/en/wikipedia/m/ma/mars__planet_.html#Mars'%20moons

[JamesEightBitStar]

Personally I still think the "He died and went to Hell, then got resurrected" theory is the only one that really works.

[chilvence]

I never paid much heed to e1m8's ending, I just assumed that the dark room was a representation of Deimos base. But I really like this idea. Doomguys dead, and now he's pissed. And he brought his shotgun with him.

[SYS]

Me thinks it was just a good marketing tool for shareware. Or a daemonic hullucination. The dying and ressurrecting in hell like some ghetto Jesus is questionable because it's the last moon on Mars that you end up on, it's not quite hell itself, as the name of the episode states. Heh, I imagine if NASA really did find a mysterious gateway on one of it's moons, I think there would be enough hopefull Doom fans on this forum, that hope it does lead to hell....

[Torn]

chilvence said:

I never paid much heed to e1m8's ending, I just assumed that the dark room was a representation of Deimos base. But I really like this idea. Doomguys dead, and now he's pissed. And he brought his shotgun with him.

No, he hasn't. Like all the other episodes he start with a pistol.

[chilvence]

Pedant :P

[Vegeta]

I think that it's a representation of what await in the other episodes (hell). Also it mean that the game doesn't end at that episode (for shareware users), you must complete the best part that it is in the full version.

I think the message is "as you feel unsatisfied by ending on that way, you must buy the full version if you want to really be victorious".

[Grimm]

Yeah, I think that was the point of it.

That dying and ressurecting thing sure is a cool idea though. :)

[BlueSonnet]

I always thought it was an illusion of some sort, partly because if you go through the teleporter with god mode on it turns off when you get to the other side.

[Scuba Steve]

I think you're forgetting that you actually DO die at the end of E1M8. Your health DOES reach zero, but it isn't always shown becasue the ending text will likely kick it before your health indicator updates. The floor type in the Room is "Damage Player, End Episode when DEAD". The player dies, goes to hell and then defeats the minions of hell itself to return to earth.

[Erp]

If you enter in God mode you can kill everything and you end up standing in black room with no where to go. No teleportation effect happens.
It's just one of those soap opera scenarios where your favorite marine dies, but the actor comes back later as someone else, like a cousin or twin.
Hey, id had to do something to end the shareware.

[Torn]

Scuba Steve said:

I think you're forgetting that you actually DO die at the end of E1M8. Your health DOES reach zero, but it isn't always shown becasue the ending text will likely kick it before your health indicator updates. The floor type in the Room is "Damage Player, End Episode when DEAD". The player dies, goes to hell and then defeats the minions of hell itself to return to earth.

It exits, when you have 10 or under in health. So technily you don't die.

[Graf Zahl]

Torn said:

It exits, when you have 10 or under in health. So technily you don't die.

Not only technically. You don't die. Period. If there was another level following you'd go there with low health. But you are still alive.

[SYS]

Scuba Steve said:

I think you're forgetting that you actually DO die at the end of E1M8. Your health DOES reach zero, but it isn't always shown becasue the ending text will likely kick it before your health indicator updates. The floor type in the Room is "Damage Player, End Episode when DEAD". The player dies, goes to hell and then defeats the minions of hell itself to return to earth.

So that means that the moon Deimos floating around mars is actually hell and it floats around in space. In relative term to the game of course =)

[Dron]

You die as you go through the gate to Deimos. But once you get to Deimos you're reserructed don't forget Deimos is floating ABOVE hell. So once you goto hell your reserructed but your on Deimos so you're technically in hell.

[Sephiroth]

its not really worth putting brain cells into work over. its a game. Id said, game first then story. well this is a point where the story doesn't make much sence. personaly i have never thought about it nor cared.

eitherway you kick the spider mastermind's ass

[Infinite Ammunition]

Why not just look in the source?

[Scuba Steve]

Graf Zahl said:

Not only technically. You don't die. Period. If there was another level following you'd go there with low health. But you are still alive.

Heh, what the fuck do I know. I hate mapping nad have never programmed a day in my life ;)

[Linguica]

I have always liked the idea that he died at the end of E1. The episode ends with you getting the shit kicked out of you, and the next episode has you in Hell (well, floating above it anyway) so it stands to reason that the way you got there was by dying.

But then there's the matter of the final teleporter in E1M8, which is the first and only time in that episode that that texture is used. While it could just be a way of showing that it was the end, it also suggests that it's some sort of express teleporter to Hell, since the texture is reused in E2 and E3. In that case the end of E1M8 could just be a "cliffhanger" which isn't canonical per se, but just a teaser for players of the shareware to buy the full game.

But then again there's the issue of you being stripped of your weapons and armor. Now of course this is something that happens simply because you have to start a new game to play E2, but it suggests that something happened to you between the end of Phobos and the beginning of Deimos -- say, dying.

But then again nowhere else, especially the text after you beat the game, does it mention you being dead, which seems like would be the perfect ending twist (you try to enter the portal back to Earth, but it won't let you, and you realize you're trapped in Hell because you're dead, or whatever).

I would guess that id never intended the space marine to be "dead" after E1, but it's an interesting conceit.

[Godshatter]

ive gone into that room with godmode on and i still die. i dont know what ur talking about- killing everything in the room and then theres nothing there.

[Job]

Godmode can be overridden if enough damage is done to the player.