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Jomero

Fast Monsters

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So I've been going through the original DooM (well, Ultimate DooM version 1.9) but this time with fast monsters on. My goal was to play it just like I used to: Ultra Violence, 100% Kills, absolutely no cheating (and I consider jumping cheating too).

Well, as of about half hour ago, I've finished the first three original episodes, and just barely beat the first level of Thy Flesh Consumed (now that one was a bugger for 100% kills w/ fast monsters on).

It's pretty fun. Taking me down memory lane, while also challenging my old "skillz." Looking forward to DooM II. :D

-Jomero

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Never, EVER spell "skills" with a Z again.

[edit]Unless it's "skillz0r" that's different :p[/edit]

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Yeah, fast monsters makes a great substitute for Nightmare IMO (Quake I had this as its Nightmare skill level). Fast monsters make for harder, and even somewhat different gameplay (though not so much in both ways as the true Nightmare).

What I consider to be the final challenge is to complete any map from scratch at UV-Fast. Nightmare is just too much.

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Were you using vanilla? If so, did you start a new game from the menu after warping in? (-fast is a bit buggy in vanilla, and doesn't work properly if you start a new game from the menu after warping in. However this is necessary if you want to use savegames)

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I'm beginning to think that (a) -fast SHOULD have been Nightmare! and (b) that all .WADs should be designed to cater for -fast.

Ineed, Intent2 is VERY fun played on -fast... ;)

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Hi guys, long time lurker, first time poster.

I personally think that the difficulty curve between Hurt me Plenty and Ultra Violence is way too steep.

For example

Map : E1M1
Hurt Me Plenty : No Zombies by armour.
Ultra Violence : Shotgun Zombies (!!!) by armour.

Nightmare is very hard (8 seconds to monster respawn).

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Damn straight.

I don't like fast monsters myself. Makes em too . . . fast. :D Plus it makes hitscan enemies into friggin' gods.

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I spelled "skillz" the way I did (and put it in quotes to hammer home the intention) as a joke to what people call their gaming abilities.

I've been using ZDoom for fast monsters, and I make sure I turn fast monsters back on before loading each savegame.

If I can make it through the beginning of E4M2 with what ammo I have left, I should be home-free. E4M1 is truly a pain to get 100% kills w/ fast monsters. Very limited ammo and at least 5 barons. I killed most of the spectres with my fist (no berzerk pack) and finished that level with only 23 bullets left. I probably could do better, but I really don't want to go back and try right now.

As for starting maps from scratch w/ fast monsters, I did that at least 4 or 5 times. Sometimes I'd be at work and want to bust out where I left off, but didn't have a savegame so I'd idclev it to where I was and just have a go at it, then would do the same when I got home to continue where I left off. Mostly did this in Episode 1, but I still did it! :-)

-Jomero

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Thy Flesh Consumed is a real challenge with UV-Fast, especially the first two maps. Map 6 is also one of the hardest, while the rest of the episode is far easier in comparison with maps 1, 2, and 6.

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-fast can really revitalize a map, but you can never tell exactly how it will change things in a particular map until you have tried it. Sometimes it changes a tame map into an absolute blast-fest (this often happens with old maps with lots of smaller enemies). Sometimes it just unbalances the gameplay horribly (easy sections followed by ones where you're lucky to survive at all), while on some occasions it doesn't make much difference at all, or even makes things easier because the infighting goes much faster.

Note also that monsters move around less when they are "-fast" (since they generally start their attack pretty much as soon as they see you), and the player can quite often use this to his advantage.

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I personally think the old DooM is completely babaric, then Wool made Venom for me, Which I loved...But, being a lazy ass, it was slige thingy...I'm starting to like DooM more, It's fun if modify to your liking...I should try the fast monsters thing.

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i got collectors doom, and it was funny when i put on doom 2 level 30 on ultra violence w/ fast monsters, took all weapons, warped, then put on idclev and watched all the monsters squirm. hehe. After a couple hours it was actually tempting to put on god mode and kill them all...but i decided to go with no cheats when i went out there and died in 3 and a half seconds, but managed to get a screenshot but i dont wanna show it here...

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When playtesting EDGE I always play the early levels with respawning enabled in resurrect mode (i.e. enemies get back up from where they die). It becomes challenging on E1M3 and I've not yet made it on E1M9....

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I would play true nightmare mode, but having monsters come back is more of an annoyance than a challenge plus it messes up my kill 100% stat. :-)

Also, I've noticed that the Spider-Demon and Cyberdemon don't seem to be affected by fastmonsters, at least when it comes to firing. Cybey's rockets seem to travel at the same speed. Pity.

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You could make a .deh-patch to find out how rockets are at speed = 40, but unfortunately it affects your rockets as well, so it's not good for enhancements.

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Joe said:

I personally think that the difficulty curve between Hurt me Plenty and Ultra Violence is way too steep.

For example

Map : E1M1
Hurt Me Plenty : No Zombies by armour.
Ultra Violence : Shotgun Zombies (!!!) by armour.

At least in that level, one of the Shotgun Zombies is next to a switch that leads you right to the blue armor.

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Numbermind said:

I prefer UV -fast with no respawning weapons/health ideal for coop.


Hmmm. I agree. That WOULD be awesome!

Haven't played co-op DooM in about 9 years though. :(

-Jomero

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Beat all of Ultimate DooM w/ fast monsters on Ultra Violence. Was fun.

I will say this now after being 9 levels into DooM 2: Pain Elementals used to be just a minor annoyance for me. Now they are floating balls of death w/ fast monsters on, especially in big rooms. In fact, they're the deadliest monsters I've come across so far w/ fast monsters on. Never would have guessed.

-Jomero

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Are you using a port that doesn't retain the lost-soul limit?

[Lost-soul limit: PEs will not spit out lost souls if there are already 21 or more of them alive somewhere in the map.]

I imagine levels like map09 would then be a real pain on -fast or NM.

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Grazza said:

Are you using a port that doesn't retain the lost-soul limit?

[Lost-soul limit: PEs will not spit out lost souls if there are already 21 or more of them alive somewhere in the map.]

I imagine levels like map09 would then be a real pain on -fast or NM.


Yeah, latest version of Zdoom has that option. I figure it's not being true to the original if they are limited in spitting out lost souls so I generally disable the limit. I disable jump as well.

2 pain elementals in a wide open room can spell pain pretty dang fast.

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Instant Horde (TM)

The annoying thing about fast PE's is that they immediately form a wall of Lost Souls in front of them, blocking all firepower except BFG blasts. The best way to deal with them is by sneaking up close to them; unfortunately this isn't always possible.

As for the remaining Lost Soul hordes, you can destroy them by hiding somewhere and let them infight until there's only one left :P

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Doom, Doom2 and many Plutonia and TNT maps are highly playable and fun in Nightmare skill. You need to find out the good tactics
The amount of Nightmare movies and demos around (not only Compet-N) show that it's really doable.
Though, most PWads are unplayable in Nightmare :) Looks like ID tuned the original levels to be excellent in Nightmare.

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Jomero said:

I will say this now after being 9 levels into DooM 2: Pain Elementals used to be just a minor annoyance for me. Now they are floating balls of death w/ fast monsters on, especially in big rooms. In fact, they're the deadliest monsters I've come across so far w/ fast monsters on. Never would have guessed.


Oh yeah, -Fast or NM Pain Elementals are really a pain :)
When one pops up in map30 in the end of a NM run thru doom2, it's considered as a curse because they tend to spit skulls all around which are rather annoying when aiming for the boss brain.
-fast Archvile in map30 are also a pain (very hard to stay on that platform).
Whenever a PE or an archie spawns, the player usually quits the platform to quickly deal with it.

Note that Demons and Specters also get greatly imporved in -fast and NM, from bland/boring monsters they become fast as hell and your health drops like crazy when they chew you :) (prolly the monsters that get the most improved in -fast and NM)

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Yeah, I could do nightmare. It's not completely impossible for me. But, it's more of an annoyance than fun. Since I haven't played most of these levels in years, it's kind of nice to explore them once again. Respawning monsters hinders that.

It's kinda cool how some things are just ingrained into your brain. I haven't played many of these maps in quite a few years but I still remembered most of the secrets. Most of the time I wouldn't remember until I got near it. Then my gut would say something like "Soul Sphere" or "Chainsaw" or something and I'd fiddle around until I found it again. Which, again, respawning monsters would just be more of annoyance to that fun factor.

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Jomero said:

Yeah, latest version of Zdoom has that option. I figure it's not being true to the original if they are limited in spitting out lost souls so I generally disable the limit.

You misunderstand. The limit is in the original game. Some ports remove it or compatibility-option it (though in Zdoom it is out-by-one).

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Grazza said:

You misunderstand. The limit is in the original game. Some ports remove it or compatibility-option it (though in Zdoom it is out-by-one).


Ah. Didn't know the limit was in the original. Though I vaguely remember some neutered Pain Elementals years ago, that weren't able to spit out lost souls after a while.

I do remember that lost souls could sometimes get stuck "behind walls" after a PE exploded and the only way to kill it was to clip through the wall and shoot it.

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Map09 provides an easy way to see the limit in action. On HMP there are 18 lost souls (as opposed to 33 on UV), so the PEs can spit out 3 lost souls before they become impotent (assuming you haven't killed any of the lost souls by then).

The limit is used for an interesting trick on Hell Revealed map19. At the start you are surrounded by harmless PEs. As soon as you collect the megasphere though, this triggers a bunch of lost souls to be crushed, and the PEs suddenly become a problem.

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