A thought on graphics/technology.

[Bucket]

Well, with the rise of Doom3, we're entering a new age of near-photorealism in the graphics world. I figured I'd start a discussion on where things are going in terms of realism OUTSIDE of the graphic realm. Things such as sound, physics, etc... because right now, the programming world just seems to be a nexus of hacks and workarounds as opposed to imitating real-world conditions.

I'll start with a few thoughts:

PHYSICS.
OK, so probably the biggest advancements in terms of 3D world physics in the gaming world have been (1) a gravitational constant, (2) skeletal animation, and (3) ragdoll physics. In my mind, that makes THREE great advancements in the last fifteen years. Some of you are aware of my "ragdoll physics rant", which still chaffs my ass. But even that has a way to go. Ragdolls are just that: they have properties for joints, and that's about it. Technically, any joint using this system has full 360-degree rotation at this point, and that's not very realistic. The best a programmer can do is try to get the skeleton to "reconstitute" itself slowly into its natural prone position. Currently, I'm developing scratch ideas for a "muscle tension system", where weights of limbs and muscle elasticity are also dropped into the equation. Alternately, I've been thinking of a way to develop surface friction as a supplement to ragdoll physics, so dead bodies won't slide around so much.

Another point of interest is "Geo-Mod", where you can actually cut chunks out of the world geometry. I'd like to see advancements in this area, as well. Maybe a future engine can calcluate the amount of support a structure must have, and further chain-reaction destruction can be effected.

SOUND.
Well, there are dynamic effects such as EQ(for underwater scenes), and reverb. Which is fantastic so far, but there are other things to consider like decay. Progress is being made in that regard, as programmers learn how sound bounces off of certain materials, resulting in either a warm(low EQ) or tinny(high EQ) reverb sound. Perhaps a "directional snapshot" system where the sound engine calculates the average composition of all materials in a given area, and returns the correct EQ and depth of reverb the area would have coming from that direction.

Recently, I've been taking notes on sounds related to collision detection-- where striking a hard material returns a higher register than a soft material. It'd be interesting if there were a way to dynamically generate a "strike sound" from a quick average of certain variables: density and size of the object being hit, and also of the object hitting it. Generally, objects vibrate at a frequency depending on their size and density-- anyway, I'm going to study it a bit more in the future.

SO...
As someone who is starting a business in the hopes of funding a future gaming company as part of a design/research team, I've been doing a lot of hypothesizing in this area. I'd like to hear others' thoughts on areas in which game-engine technology is lacking.

[deathbringer]

The Unreal 3 engine is, as PC Zone said, "Good, but no photo", and even the creators of that engine reckon that it will be a good 15-20 years before photorealistic games emerge, at the moment the biggest challenge is probably water, Far Cry's was good, but not that good, and getting liqids to realistically 'flow' and drip and run is almost impossible in computer engines right now

[SYS]

Problem with 100% realistic geomodding is the limitations of the boundaries of the level design. Imagine playing doom 3 and as soon as you get your hands on some explosives you can carve your way through the entire level, no need for keys, switches. Why bother with any of that when you can just blow up all the walls and walk right through to the exit. Also if the level is all interior and there's no exterior then the walls could have shit break off of them but they wouldn't be completely destructible. I guess you know what I'm saying. I think a FPS with a total realism geomod design at this point isn't the greatest idea.

[Silverwyvern]

POTGIESSER said:

Problem with 100% realistic geomodding is the limitations of the boundaries of the level design. Imagine playing doom 3 and as soon as you get your hands on some explosives you can carve your way through the entire level, no need for keys, switches. Why bother with any of that when you can just blow up all the walls and walk right through to the exit. Also if the level is all interior and there's no exterior then the walls could have shit break off of them but they wouldn't be completely destructible. I guess you know what I'm saying. I think a FPS with a total realism geomod design at this point isn't the greatest idea.

That's why you hide flesheating ants in the ground ;)

[Alientank]

There's a lot that has to be done before photorealism. Depth of field being a huge one.

[chilvence]

POTGIESSER said:

Why bother with any of that when you can just blow up all the walls and walk right through to the exit.

Think laterally. Dont give the player enough explosives to carve his way to the exit :P

Also, theres plenty of other ways you could discourage it. Theres a high chance of blowing all the lights in the level, or creating a fresh heat hazard from pipes etc - if the player wants to be irresponsible with explosives, make him deal with it.

[Cajun[CC]]

That's like the passwall spell in Elder Scrolls: Arena. It became a HUGE headache for designers because you could basically just tear down walls.

One thing I noticed while playing Doom 3 that kinda disappointed me, considering the depth that went into the lighting model, was that when I shined my flashlight into a mirror, the light didn't reflect at all. Understandably, there would be a lot of calculations involved in that, but considering the atmosphere of the game, it's surprising that wasn't implemented.

[Fredrik]

What needs to be invented is a random level generator that generates great levels.

[SYS]

Fredrik said:

What needs to be invented is a random level generator that generates great levels.

*cough* SLIGE!!! *cough* only joking of course.....

[Goliath]

Fredrik said:

What needs to be invented is a random level generator that generates great levels.

SOF2 had that even though some of them sucked..there were enough options that you never really got the same shit over again. I dont know if that is what you ment but I thought that it was cool.

And I would think that the problem with photorealism would be raw cpu power. I mean you basically need a 2000 dollar top of the line everything to run doom3 on ultra with 50+ fps and that is far from being a perfect engine. And btw that maxs out most computers anyway. So I would expect a huge jump in power and speed and not to metion and drop in price before graphics like that are even possible.

[Fredrik]

Yeah, the closest thing we have to photorealism probably won't run in realtime for several decades, even on supercomputers.

[Disorder]

That SOF2 random map generator was shit. None of those maps was fun.

[Goat]

max payne 2's physics are superior to any game ive played so far imo, including far cry and doom 3.

[Amaster]

I preferred Painkiller's physics. Not because they were realistic (they werent). But because they were so exagerated that you just had to laugh. A simple shotgun blast would send baddies sailing through the air.

Im sure we will eventually reach a point where the graphics are not discernable from real life. But I really hope that designers rememer that somethings cant be too realistic.