Gamespy Review

[doomedout]

This is especially for all the whiners (03,04 joiners) who somehow formulated their opinion based on what one reviewer *cough*gamespot*cough* said. This guy not only gave himself the most time to review it objectively, but addressed the pros and cons in the best possible way.
Link: http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/doom-3/536705p1.html

[Epistax]

As much as I hate all things gamespy, that's a solid review.

[Wobbo]

I joined in 2001, and was here even before that, i didnt base my opinions on the gamespy review, i based them on myself

This review was even more id dickriding, they barely mentioned the problems

[Use]

Wobbo said:

This review was even more id dickriding, they barely mentioned the problems

That must be it. Couldn't possibly be that they LIKED the game.

[Black Hand]

Heh the interview embellishes everything but the cons. I suppose that would be the "best possible way" for people like you.

"who somehow formulated their opinion based on what one reviewer *cough*gamespot*cough* said."

Could you link me to what “gamespot” said that supposedly affected my opinion of doom 3?

You silly silly people, this is exactly what happened over at blizzard forums when wc3 came out. Granted blizzard wasn't so secret about how wc3s gameplay would turn out.

[Wobbo]

Use3D said:

That must be it. Couldn't possibly be that they LIKED the game.

Its one thing if they say the game is great because of whats good about it, but since its a *review* they really should review the whole game, and not just whats good about it.

Most of the reviews completely overlooked all the games flaws, when the whole point of a review is to let peopel know whats good and bad about the game

[Murdoch]

Name one flaw that isn't based on a complete lack of comprehension on the part of the gamer as to the kind of game id was trying to create. Viewed in that context, the list gets a hell of a lot smaller.

I don't like RTS games. Does this mean this mean a well received RTS game is shit and I accuse people of "dick riding" because they like it? Of course not. As I mentioned in an earlier thread, Doom is about conquering. There are times when you feel almost godlike, laying waste to hellspawn. Doom 3 is not Doom, though they do share a lot of common elements. id wanted to create a game where you feel scared, alone, outnumbered and outgunned. In other words, you survive, you don't conquer. They made this abudantly clear in the prerelease media, and I think they succeeded brilliantly.

[Lucien]

I ike the review it pretty much on spot on how I feel about the game. Its a great classic basic fps live with that. I am enjoying bigtime. I think I'm halfway thru. Time to play some more Doom3 ............................

[Wobbo]

JoelMurdoch said:

Name one flaw that isn't based on a complete lack of comprehension on the part of the gamer as to the kind of game id was trying to create.

If id was TRYING to create a linear, boring, drawn-out and frustrating experience, than they succeded in many respects - of course, anybody can do that. I gives a fuck waht the designers "set-out" to create, because by those standards EVERY GAME is perfect.

Player: Um, Max Payne 2 is kinda linear, you cant explore or do anything, you just follow a straight path and shoot people...
3d Realms: You dont comprehend, we SET OUT to creat and interactive comic book experience!
Player: oh, well now that you put it that way the game is suddenly fun!

But even if i accept your logic its still wrong...

1. Creating a "well-paced experience", as Id promised over and over, does not mean the same monsters with excactly the smae attacks literally hundreds of times, nor does it mean CONSTANT confrontations in literally every room.

2. Creating "realistic environments" as id promised over and over doesnt mean every singele door is locked EXCEPT for the one the level designer wants you to go in, nor does it mean that nearly all the levels are extremely cramped with no
secrets or alternate paths

3. Focusing on the sp experince doesnt mean theres absolutley no replay value.

Overall id said they would focus on the single player experince, and it turned out to be only that - an *experience* ... not a game.

There are other flaws too, the lack of variety in weapons and monsters, terrible multiplayer, etc. but i guess since id didnt *promise* these things they cant count as flaws ... o_0 ?

And dont try to correct me about what id planned for and promised because ive been following this games development literally since the day it was announced, not just on this forum (although ive been here for a long time and have posted about the old doom as well)

[Murdoch]

Wobbo said:

If id was TRYING to create a linear, boring, drawn-out and frustrating experience, than they succeded in many respects - of course, anybody can do that.

If you continue to state your opinion as though it is fact, people will get pissed off with you. Is it linear? Yes, for the most part. This is fact. There a number of places where additional doors lead to more small areas and supplies if you explore I might add. Is this a bad thing by definition? No. It is largely a matter of opinion. I found it did not hamper the experience. But I really find that the linearity argument falls down upon close examination. Doom wasn't completely linear, but it was not far off. I can't think of a single FPS where linearity doesn't figure to one degree or another. These days especially, engines are infinitely more complex than they were in Doom's day, and building levels takes more time, and therefore cost. Imagine a game with Doom 3's production values with non-linear levels. It would've taken another year to develop at least, and then you'd have people still whinning about the time it's taking, not to mention the people who would be bitching about the levels being too complex. id can't win.

I find Doom 3 to be the precise opposite of boring, drawn-out and frustrating. Enthralling, challenging and absorbing is more the words I'd chose. Both sides need to accept that both perspectives are inherently unprovable because they are opinions. To me, they suggest that people are approaching the game from the wrong perspective. Evidentally their personal tastes do not fit what id had in mind.

I gives a fuck waht the designers "set-out" to create, because by those standards EVERY GAME is perfect.

Don't be silly. Different games suit different tastes, just like music, movies, Classic Doom levels and every other form of creative media. People have a tendency to interpret a game they don't like as shit, and this is not necessarily so. There are some which are obviously bad, but in a lot of cases it is down to the person to decide what they like and don't, and what they chose to buy. That's why it makes more sense to wait and download a demo than plunge ahead and spend. I usually do, but... I dunno. I had a good feeling, what can I say. Even the best laid plans can still result in what, to one person, is a bad game and waste of money.

Player: Um, Max Payne 2 is kinda linear, you cant explore or do anything, you just follow a straight path and shoot people...
3d Realms: You dont comprehend, we SET OUT to creat and interactive comic book experience!
Player: oh, well now that you put it that way the game is suddenly fun!

See my point about costs and development time.

1. Creating a "well-paced experience", as Id promised over and over, does not mean the same monsters with excactly the smae attacks literally hundreds of times, nor does it mean CONSTANT confrontations in literally every room.

Now I'm sorry, but this is plain bullshit. Many rooms do not have confrontations in them. Delta Labs 1 you hear only growls and see shadows for the first run through. Many control rooms have nothing but computers and equipment. And what if their were less attacks? The game would be dull, as would any other game following the same logic. Last I checked, Doom had monsters in pretty much every room, and for the most part it's the low level mix - Imps, Zombie Soldiers and Pinkies.

And of course you see the same monsters and they have the same attacks. This one I really don't get. Did you think every encounter was going to have a new monster? Please clarify what you mean, cause I can only classify this statement as delusional otherwise.

2. Creating "realistic environments" as id promised over and over doesnt mean every singele door is locked EXCEPT for the one the level designer wants you to go in, nor does it mean that nearly all the levels are extremely cramped with no
secrets or alternate paths

See my above comments about linearity. Also, all levels by logic must lead to one final point without using hubs a la Half Life and Hexen, or else again you would see sky rocketing costs and development time, as you would need whole other levels and story branches. There are many cramped areas, yes, but id made it pretty clear that this would be the case. I found the levels to be pretty believable and convincingly laid out given the subject matter, and the cramped conditions only serviced to enhance the atmosphere for me.

3. Focusing on the sp experince doesnt mean theres absolutley no replay value.

Replay value is a subjective matter. Depending on the person, even Doom could have no replay value. And pray tell, how can a game development company not design a game with a story of this calibre, where key information and plot points relayed at particular points, and again not have a ungodly long development time? Doom *seems* more replayable cause it's simpler. No information is given out, no real story is told.

the lack of variety in weapons and monsters

Um... what? The weapons are totally different from each other. They function differently, act differently and sound differently. I cannot understand how you came to this conclusion. However, I can understand how you might have found a lack of variety in monsters. The designs are all pretty cool and unique, but the Imps are overused I suppose.

terrible multiplayer, etc. but i guess since id didnt *promise* these things they cant count as flaws ... o_0 ?

Given the fact that every time I try connecting to a game with a decent ping the server is full, it seems people would disagree that the multiplayer is terrible. And yes, id specifically stated MP would be minimalist, but with enough scope for mod makers to run amok as they pleased. If you knew this when you bought the game and yet still expected good multiplayer on the level of... say, UT2004, then frankly, you are an idiot.

And dont try to correct me

I'll say what I damn well please, thank you.

[Lucien]

Wobbo said:

If id was TRYING to create a linear, boring, drawn-out and frustrating experience, than they succeded in many respects - of course, anybody can do that. I gives a fuck waht the designers "set-out" to create, because by those standards EVERY GAME is perfect.

Player: Um, Max Payne 2 is kinda linear, you cant explore or do anything, you just follow a straight path and shoot people...
3d Realms: You dont comprehend, we SET OUT to creat and interactive comic book experience!
Player: oh, well now that you put it that way the game is suddenly fun!

But even if i accept your logic its still wrong...

1. Creating a "well-paced experience", as Id promised over and over, does not mean the same monsters with excactly the smae attacks literally hundreds of times, nor does it mean CONSTANT confrontations in literally every room.

2. Creating "realistic environments" as id promised over and over doesnt mean every singele door is locked EXCEPT for the one the level designer wants you to go in, nor does it mean that nearly all the levels are extremely cramped with no
secrets or alternate paths

3. Focusing on the sp experince doesnt mean theres absolutley no replay value.

Overall id said they would focus on the single player experince, and it turned out to be only that - an *experience* ... not a game.

There are other flaws too, the lack of variety in weapons and monsters, terrible multiplayer, etc. but i guess since id didnt *promise* these things they cant count as flaws ... o_0 ?

And dont try to correct me about what id planned for and promised because ive been following this games development literally since the day it was announced, not just on this forum (although ive been here for a long time and have posted about the old doom as well)

Wow!!! It sucks to be you!!!!!!! Now back to Doom 3.................

[Rancid]

im in the process of getting a new computer to play this game at its full potential, frankly I dont pay that much attention to what critics have to say, everyone writes their own review

So far i was able to play a choppy first level of soom 3 on my 1.7 256 mb ram pc. I knew that this game would not play well nor look stellar on my current machine, but my god i cant wait till i play it on a new rig. Why? Because you have to see the potential thats their for you to uncover, i didn't like what i saw from what i played because my PC sucks, it did not play the game as was intended, all i can say is that my god my life is gonna be over when the new rig gets here.

[Black Hand]

Are you kidding? Doom 3 is just a little less linear then super Mario brothers.(don't take my exaggeration to seriously.) In doom 3 there is only ONE path to victory and only one method of reaching it.
“found it did not hamper the experience.”

Well how many times do you want to go through the experience? Heres a tip if you say or think a number higher then “1” your boned.

“These days especially, engines are infinitely more complex than they were in Doom's day, and building levels takes more time, and therefore cost.”

“Imagine a game with Doom 3's production values with non-linear levels. It would've taken another year to develop at least”

If you continue to state your opinion as though it is fact, people will get pissed off with you. Would it have taken another year to develop?

Probably not, in fact it probably would have come out sooner. Clearly you don’t understand how much time and effort and “money” ID spent into making sure that everyone of the games encounters would be played out exactly the same way every time.

“See my above comments about linearity. Also, all levels by logic must lead to one final point”

Oh so very wrong, all levels must HAVE a final point, they don’t need to drag you by a leash through the exact same situations as the first time you went through them. If anything id describe doom 3 as a Disney’s children’s ride(with flesh eating monsters), in that all the little cartoon animals are all programmed to pop up at specific points say specific things and then disappear again.

“Replay value is a subjective matter.”

No, no it’s not, if you can replay a game and experience new things in the process then it has replay value, and if you don’t experience new things it doesn’t have replay value PERIOD.

“Given the fact that every time I try connecting to a game with a decent ping the server is full, it seems people would disagree that the multiplayer is terrible.”

The game JUST came out, you need to give it more time to decide whether or not doom 3 has serious multiplayer potential, personally I’m hoping so.

“Now I'm sorry, but this is plain bullshit. Many rooms do not have confrontations in them. Delta Labs 1 you hear only growls and see shadows for the first run through. Many control rooms have nothing but computers and equipment. And what if their were less attacks? The game would be dull, as would any other game following the same logic.”

Maybe if all of doom 3s monsters were TRULY unique and interesting Lets see,
Imp fireball, lung//leap attack
Trite bite//leap attack
Tick bite//leap attack
Cherub claw//leap attack
Pinky//bite/leap attack (that’s all that was expected)
Lost soul// bite/leap attack
Revenant claw attack//rockets
Hell knights// some form of fireball//swipe attack
Zombies//claw attack or guns
Vagory projectile//swipe attack
Guardian charge/bite attack
Sarge BFG//swipe attack
Cyber demon Rocket//swipe attack

And all these monsters very much prefer the close quarters attacks.
The fact that three of the doomguys guns have the same (or very similar) rate of fire speeds doesn’t help either, especially when they nerfed the shotguns distance power, literally forcing people to use one of those three guns. (Machine gun, Chaingun, Plasma gun)

I think this may be my least offensive post yet on the subject, so if we can all keep it cool (I’m not pointing fingers at anyone) then that would be great.

I've been paying just as close attention to ID as you have and they NEVER ever mentioned or hinted to the true scope of exactly how linear doom 3 was going to be.

[Murdoch]

If you continue to state your opinion as though it is fact, people will get pissed off with you.

Oh! He turned my words on me! So clever... oh wait, no it's not.

Would it have taken another year to develop? Probably not, in fact it probably would have come out sooner.

/falls out of chair laughing

OK, I'll play.

Complex game engine + ((level * level of complexity) * number of levels) = amount of time to develop game.

No, no it’s not

Yes, it is. I watch my favourite movies many times. I enjoy what they are, not the "newness" of them. Sure, first time is the best, but they're still enjoyable. The same thing may or may not apply to Doom 3. I haven't finished it yet so I don't know.

stupid monster list

And, how is this different from Doom? It's not. The attacks are all but identical, with the added edge of leaps, which in my opinion is a welcome addition. Doom is fun but the AI is horribly predictable.

And how exactly did you expect demons to attack? You wanted only one with a projectile and then... what, one of them do have deadly flatulence or something?

I said unique design (ie: appearance), not attacks.

The fact that three of the doomguys guns have the same (or very similar) rate of fire speeds doesn’t help either, especially when they nerfed the shotguns distance power, literally forcing people to use one of those three guns. (Machine gun, Chaingun, Plasma gun)

I use the shotgun the most. Even the chainsaw is useful if you time your attacks right precisely cause they often attack in close. It got me out of quite a few low ammo scrapes. Rate of fire means squat. The guns do different rates of damage and consequently are better against different enemies. If you think there's is no difference in taking on an Imp with a plasma gun when the less powerful machine gun will do the job, and save the cells for a tougher bad guy... then, well... I can't finish that without resorting to insults.

I think this may be my least offensive post yet on the subject, so if we can all keep it cool (I’m not pointing fingers at anyone) then that would be great.

Oh please. It's pretty clear that you are not interested in discussion. You want to rant and rave like a spoilt child and have everyone tell you how right you are.

Wait for a demo next time before spending money. They exist for a reason.

[doomedout]

Joel, no point trying to raise any logical points (I couldn't say them better myself); they'll just continue to believe what they want to believe - I just find it really odd that the old-school doom players found doom3 to be linear - given the fact that the original was about as linear as they get. Change of preferences?

Oh and black-hand, all opinions are subjective - stop coming across as a complete dick.

[Wobbo]

[Black Hand]

“Oh and black-hand, all opinions are subjective - stop coming across as a complete dick.”

Replay value ISN’T subjective, Its something that can be measured tested and enhanced, its something of form, if someone PERCIEVES replay value differently then its because THEY are subjective not the repayable content.

And further more JoelMurdoch you have no place whatsoever telling me that I’m not interested in discussion while you just literally spam (and yes intentionally misinterpreting quotes and then responding to them in that way IS spam) your way out of every corner you get backed into, just like a spoilt child, In both of your posts at no point did you actually disprove anything that anyone has said. Your posts are just all setting and no plot.

The simplest answer to your very long posts are “no.” Generally when someone puts that much time and energy into creating large posts I feel obliged to return the favor and at least give off the impression that I care as much as they do, but for you, your spelling and your burning desire to avoid and circumvent all actual confrontation I’ll just stick with “no” and just thank god that at no point in your life will you be part of national diplomacy.

”Complex game engine + ((level * level of complexity) * number of levels) = amount of time to develop game.”

Ludicrous amount of time wasted preparing each and every action and movement of each and every encounter + time not spent on levels of complexity = doom 3

Time not wasted on preparing each movement and action of every encounter + time better spent on enhanced level design = the same or less amount of time required to develop game.

[Scabbed Angel]

Aren't most games linear? Especially survival horror? So meh to that. Although I was under the impression that we wouldn't be bombarded with constant hordes of monsters eveywhere we went. This is my only real complant as I have come to Delta labs 1. I have to say though, that after the past 3 levels or so, not having monsters after having way to many of them haven't given me a break so much as made me more afraid. I hope the rest of the game was as successful as getting me scared as this level.

[Murdoch]

Good christ you two are pathetic. I've read and interpreted your words exactly as you've written them.

You think whatever you want. All I did was expressed my opinion. I never said the negative opinions are wrong, only suggested that in the context of the game id were trying to make, that could hardly be considered game flaws. You two are putting words in my mouth and have offered nothing useful to this dicussion. I only got pissed off with Wobbo when he said, and I quote...

This review was even more id dickriding

That's plain immature and uncalled for. You two are so caught up in your petty little rages you cannot fathom someone disagrees with you.

Why is it that everytime someone disagrees with someone else on this forum, they start crying like whinny bitches saying how they're not allowed to express their opinion? That kind of immature bullshit might've worked on your Mom kids when one of your schoolmates picked on you, but it won't work here. No one has ever said that anywhere on this forum as far as I know.

Stating a different opinion is fine. Resorting to this kind of childish bullshit is most definitely not. People will come down on you. Learn to live with it or shut the hell up.

actually, it was, beccause your a total hypocrite, but besides that your wrong.

This is too priceless for words, and too stupid to justify a response.

VIDEO GAMES ARENT MOVIES

No, really? Wow, gee, thanks for pointing that out mr smarty man! In return for that hint, I suggest you look up the word "analogy".

no you cant finish it because there REALLY IS NOT DIFFERENCE. Maybe your aim is just shit but it takes literally the ALMOST THE EXACT SAME amount of time to kill an imp with the plasmagun or the machine gun

This just does not gel with my experiences I'm afraid. I'd much rather take the plasma gun to a revenant than the machine gun, for example. It stuffs up his attack more and also destroys his rockets.

oooh im so scared newbies on the message board will be mad with me

I'm the one mad with you, and I am not a newbie. I've been in the Doom community longer than this site has.

because im stating my opinion, and it happens to be different than the one they want.

It's not your opinion that's the problem, it's your attitude. And before you go "ohh but your attitude is no better!!!11" I agree. But if you'd put across your points in a more mature and constructive fashion, this bullshit would never have started.

Uhh, this thread is not about you, its about gamespy's review, and how cant even bring themselves to offer real critisim of id's game

No... really? Gosh golly gee, you're right. Or... maybe I mentioned that because I'm trying to back up the aforementioned review and help you understand it's conclusions, even if you don't necessarily agree?

Thats nice, ok well in that case no game is bad, since every game has flaws to one degree over another.

Don't be fucking daft.

Get the fuck outtahere. The level design process isnt getting mroe complex, in fact game designers have MORE FREEDOM than theyve ever had!

Any level designer will tell you the more complex the engine (and yes complexity = freedom), the more involved the level design process is. You can't drawn a room like you can in Doom builder and magically have it filled with pipes, computers, windows and interactive interfaces.

if you choose to misread my posts thats fine

I am only following your posts to their logical conclusion. I was asking for clarification because that part made no sense to me.

THE SERVERS SAY FULL BECAUSE THEIRS A *BUG* IN THE GAME THAT AMKES ALL SERVERS SAY THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

This illustrates my whole problem with you. Not your opinion, but you. I've checked the MP browser in D3 about three times and tried to connect out of idle curiosity, and just assumed the thing was as read, that it was full. I then went back to the SP game as that is my focus for now. The replies in that thread clearly state many people have gotten in, so not "ALL SERVERS" are affected.

Now, had you actually said something like. "Joel's, there's actually a confirmed bug in the game which often incorrectly reports the selected server as full. See this thread." I would've replied. "You're right, that's a shitty bug that there's no excuse for." or something along those lines. See the difference?

And further more JoelMurdoch you have no place whatsoever telling me that I’m not interested in discussion while you just literally spam (and yes intentionally misinterpreting quotes and then responding to them in that way IS spam) your way out of every corner you get backed into, just like a spoilt child, In both of your posts at no point did you actually disprove anything that anyone has said.

Of course I haven't because I AM NOT TRYING TO DISPROVE YOUR OPINION. I am only trying to get through to the two of you that their is another side to the story just as valid, and slamming the people seeing the other side the way you have is making both of you look like raging assholes. You come across to people with the attitudes you have and someone is going to tear into you. As I said to Wobbo, either get used to it or learn to deal with people more constructively.

The simplest answer to your very long posts are “no.”...I’ll just stick with “no” and just thank god that at no point in your life will you be part of national diplomacy.

Thank you for proving my points about you.

That's enough of this bullshit. My sincerest, humblest apologies to all who have clicked on this thread since this stupidity started. I should've known better.

[Scabbed Angel]

Dude, why don't you all chill out and stop flaming each other? If one of you stops, there will be no more bullshit in this thread. Joel, tacking on the comments like "adds to ignore list" is a great way of showcasing the advanced maturity you described. *applause* Let's knock it off everyone before this thread sees some bright new colors...

[Murdoch]

You're absolutely right man. I just tend to get so aggravated by people like that I end up sinking to their level.

[Scabbed Angel]

JoelMurdoch said:

You're absolutely right man. I just tend to get so aggravated by people like that I end up sinking to their level.

Thank you : )

[Sephiroth]

the fact is game reviewers are human too. they have likes and dis-likes. so a game they may give 95% to i may give 70% or a game they rate as 2 star i may rate as 4.5.

examples include HL, while i loved the game i dont consider it the best game of all time, certianly not in a spot over doom. however if i was a person mainly into online play, i would most likly rate it as a number 1 game.

other examples include the game anachronox. while delayed and useing an out dated engine this game was a blast to play. yes it did have bugs and such and there are unofficial patches correcting many of these. this game went away too fast. it was fun gaming at its best. the stigma of daikatan is what went into alot of this games undoing. personaly i recommend buying it if you find it.

game preference is going to change between people and companies. some companies are in bed with each other. example GMR gave postal 2 a 0% rating, yet in its list of highest selling games it was within #5 and i belive had a spot in the top 10 selling games for that month. however that game was just pure satire.

[Black Hand]

---------------------EDIT---------------------------
Nevermind people, flambre on.

Now for your viewing pleasure I’ve brought ACDC to sing for us, and in no way is it a vague foreshadow of the inevitable.

Livin' easy, lovin' free season ticket on a one way ride asking nothing, leave me be taking everything in my stride don't need reason, don't need rhyme ain't nothing i would rather do going down, for a time my friends are gonna be there too

i'm on the highway to hell
on the highway to hell
highway to hell
i'm on the highway to hell

no stop signs, speed limit nobody's gonna slow me down like a wheel gonna spin it nobody's gonna mess me around hey Satan, paid my dues i'm playing in a rockin band
hey mama, look at me i'm on my way to the promised land

i'm on the highway to hell
on the highway to hell
highway to hell
i'm on the highway to hell

Don't stop me

(insert solo here)

Highway to hell
on the highway to hell
Highway to hell
highway to hell
Highway to hell
i'm on the highway to hell
Highway to hell

and i'm going down all the way
i'm on the highway to hell

[Fusion]

This thread is weak.

If you don't like Doom3 that's fine, and voicing your opinion is ok too.. But will continuous bitching about it on a fan site really attract positive feedback?? I think not.. For the love of god, Cease and desist this thread before it goes to posty-hell. heh

[Black Hand]

Fusion I would have preferred to PM this to you but you have it disabled.

Doomworld is a Doom site, not just doom 3, I wouldn't be surprised if people who like doom 3 actually turn into the minority very quickly in the coming months. Most people who dislike it only discreetly whisper as if they felt guilty or that their opinions were scandalous.

Further more this thread was an insult to all people who find anything wrong with doom 3 that’s worth mentioning, it should have been sent to post hell right from the beginning, not because I or anyone else decided to argue it further. (It’s quit humorous how the person who made this thread abandoned it the second he had to use his brain to comprehend anything greater then registration dates and copy paste.)

I think the mods just want this one to die on its own. This thread never intended to do anything but piss people off, mission accomplished, it's dead, over, finished either a mod will close it or it will just sink to the bottom of doom world and never resurface.

[doomedout]

Black Hand said:

(It’s quit humorous how the person who made this thread abandoned it the second he had to use his brain to comprehend anything greater then registration dates and copy paste.)

Is bashing anything you know how to do? First of all, I abandoned all forms of discussion only because it was futile in trying to convince "air-heads" like you ON any points. If someone is so fixated and argumentative as you are, then there is no point in even having a casual debate. Secondly, if this thread had any shred of intelligent, well-thought of counter-points besides the overstated gameplay shortcomings, maybe it would have prompted me to respond. And lastly, seeing how some people are actually claiming that replay ISN'T subjective - makes me cringe.

I don't want to be pulled into a useless debate. It just surprises me how the nubcakes jump on the bandwagon and enjoy dissing a game which a lot of "professional" reviewers enjoyed. Oh, they are "dickriding" aren't they? Damn simpleton.

[Relica Religia]

I enjoy replaying Doom 3. Therefore it has replay value to me.

Does that make me a bad person?

[Wobbo]

Sephiroth said:

the fact is game reviewers are human too. they have likes and dis-likes. so a game they may give 95% to i may give 70% or a game they rate as 2 star i may rate as 4.5.

True, but no reviewer has the guts to poitn out doom3s flaws, thats what im saying

who has the balls to review doom3 honsetly?

[Scuba Steve]

Wobbo said:

True, but no reviewer has the guts to poitn out doom3s flaws, thats what im saying

who has the balls to review doom3 honsetly?

Maybe the reviewers don't see the same "flaws" that you do.