More good/bad stuff about the game

[EsH]

Just some thoughts that I haven't heard voiced by others yet:

-- BAD STUFF --

(I'm making these observations with the idea that id really was trying to make a very realistic, immsersive environment to explore and be scared by.)

While the lighting effects provide a sense of realism, it's often hobbled by the higher level reasoning that the base just doesn't make sense.

For example, the game is supposed to take place in the future, yet the TV and monitors look like something you'd find in the storage basement of a high school. A lot of the video technology in the base gives the impression that UAC has just discovered the vacuum tube.

The computer systems don't make sense. It seems like most usable, full fledged computer terminals are dedicated to one function with three or four simple operations. One could reason that that each terminal has been locked to ensure that the user's don't get into stuff they're not supposed to, but then, why go to the trouble of having a computer terminal? One not just a simple on/off button, to go along with all the other hard-wired buttons found just beside the terminals? Granted, the new GUI system is put to some wonderful use (such as with the teleports), but it would have been nice to have something to play with, even if it was just cosmetic. Perhaps a help menu--at every terminal, some windows to switch through in order to find the really useful option-- at every computer. Something to explore and challenge you with you so dont feel you're "just bumping into buttons" again.

It's hard to imagine that anyone would ever build a critical work environment this moody and oppressive. I mean, the UAC would want a place as condusive to work in as possible. The environment would be comfortable at best, and unobtrusive at worst. Where are the plants? The sofas? Small fountains? CARPETS for goodness sakes! Yes, it's a military research base, but even military bases find room for a potted fern here and there. Yes, there are complaints about living conditions by the game character's to acknowlege that the base is oppressive, but it doesn't change the fact that a base like this simply wouldn't have been built. Especially in a remote, isolated, stressful environment like mars. It just wouldn't happen. There would be fountains, huge moving paintings of blue skies, every possible archetectual device to allow the people to forget how isolated they are, and to allow them to be happy and enthusiastic about working there. So about 1/4 through the game, seeing more variations on huge, dull metal plated hallways I actually began chuckling to myself at how absurd it was (however effective at being scary ;) )

Hell was too cool. I mean that in a bad way. Yes it was scary too, but it was scary in a cool way. I mean, yes it LOOKS like what we think hell is supposed to look like, and is scary, but unfortunately, in this day and age that sort of scary is quite too much fun. Hell in Doom looks like someplace you'd WANT to visit. You look FORWARD to going to hell. Yes I know, of course we looked forward, but it wasn't a sort of creepy, perverse facination of dread, but was a sort of "this is going to be so COOL!" sort of fun-park feeling. It dropped the dramtic impact of the game several notches. I kept thinking "What the hell am I doing?! UAC should be selling tickets to this place! This is awesome!" Hell was a brilliant level, but it wasn't HELL hell. You fought in hell not to get out of it, but to see MORE of it. I guess this is quibling about a brilliant level, but for a game that rests on scaring you, hell should actually have been the military base-- now THAT's someplace dreary enough that would have scared me into going to church (and I'm talking BEFORE the invasion).

Evil was a bit too lackluster. There were some wonderful moments, like that first room strewn with candles, the pentagram, and the growth. But after fighting through his own hell and back, having Betruger break in with "Every step brings your soul closer to me..." just sounded more and more like a hollow threat. The monsters were violent, but they didn't seem EVIL. I mean, why would an evil demon kill someone with a rocket launcher? Why does the evil Guardian just almost mercifully just try to stamp you out? Bullies in high-school are more creatively sadistic than these demons-- where's the demonic equivalent of having your head flushed down the toilet? Why do all the demons seem so business like most of the time? Yes, there were a few living, evicerated corpese, but even this seemed like something that would show up on a polaroid, and that Satan would insists is "just an unfortunate, isolated incident". Only in the very last level, in the ruined martian base, did things start to get weird enough and just plain dreadful enough that I really started to believe I was fighting against something demonic. I'm not normally a sadistic person, but I really wanted id to do something that made parents sqirm, and make the rest of us drop our jaws in utter cool exorcist mode.

--- GOOD STUFF -------

The subtle ways the base and the demonic evil sort of melded. I don't mean flashy stuff like "the growth", but the subtle suggestive things. A great example of this are the computer systems that displayed pentagrams. There's something really scary about the demons just slightly changing the way the technology works, reather than just destroying it. It suggests the demons really want to change us, as opposed to just blowing us up. My favourite was the terminal that gave tips on building pentagrams. Most people took this as a joke, but for me, it really was one of the great few scary moments that I thought "wow, hell really has taken over..!" Another great example, from the sound department, was the way the machines sounds gradually became demonic howls-- how you could just sense that these machines were evil in there very nature. I also like the Z-Sec guards-- a lot of people complain that they aren't "zombie-like" enough, but the very fact that they act so human and are so effective speaks far more about the power of evil warping humanity than a stumbling guy in a jumpsuit you don't bother to waste the good ammo on.

The desk lamps. I don't know why, but these interactive lights scared me-- there's nothing so unnervingly weird looking as a tipped over desk light casting weird shadows. The fact that you could accidently shoot these, or knock them over, and that it made the room even more dreadfully creepy, was great. You really actually wished you could pick the lamp up again in some rooms...

The crashing monorail. I know it was just one scene, and that it is not a factor in gameplay. (This sort of thing has probably been done before, but I don't play games much, so it was new to me.) But it was so well done, and it made me believe in the game again just I was starting to get bored. It was so expertly done-- the way you have sudden, slight realization that you're going "sorta fast..." to the sudden sense of REAL (see BAD STUFF) demonic presence to that awful "I shouldn't have got back on!" to "I'm gonna die!" feeling Doom feel really fun and scary just when it needed it.

-- All the other obvious good stuff can be found elsewhere.

[Lord FlatHead]

EsH said:

A lot of the video technology in the base gives the impression that UAC has just discovered the vacuum tube.

Increases the depressingly postmodern atmosphere of Mars City. Or something.

EsH said:

Perhaps a help menu--at every terminal, some windows to switch through in order to find the really useful option-- at every computer.

No, the terminal-hunting is tedious enough as it is.

EsH said:

It's hard to imagine that anyone would ever build a critical work environment this moody and oppressive.

Yeah, if you disregard the fact that you're playing a horror video game.

[Epistax]

EsH said:

The computer systems don't make sense. It seems like most usable, full fledged computer terminals are dedicated to one function with three or four simple operations.

You really don't get it? The computers do tons of stuff, but instead of programming every function in, only the ones that have any sort of effect are shown. The "back up PC" are probably remnants of something they dropped.

EsH said:

...So about 1/4 through the game, seeing more variations on huge, dull metal plated hallways I actually began chuckling to myself at how absurd it was ...

To be fair we only saw the working environment. The most recreational areas we saw was a kitchen and a bathroom or two. Later on there did appear to be beds in solid metal rooms with nothing to hold cloths in, no washing machines anywhere, etc, but I still think this is unfair. It's like asking what the zombies and monsters would do if you weren't alive-- organize a soccer league? I mean, it must be boring there. :P

[insertwackynamehere]

I agree that the work enviroment was too moody and depressing. And so did all the employees :D Part of the reason they were all going crazy was because because they were in an isolated depressing base and heard voices everywhere :D

[EsH]

Lord FlatHead said:

Yeah, if you disregard the fact that you're playing a horror video game.

Yeah, and it is scary ;) I just wish they began the game with "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away" so I didn't get the sense that human beings actually got paid to design something like this. I mean, the alien ruins (the first part) were actually more natural and comfortable to walk around in than the base...

Epistax said:

You really don't get it? The computers do tons of stuff, but instead of programming every function in, only the ones that have any sort of effect are shown. The "back up PC" are probably remnants of something they dropped.



To be fair we only saw the working environment. The most recreational areas we saw was a kitchen and a bathroom or two. Later on there did appear to be beds in solid metal rooms with nothing to hold cloths in, no washing machines anywhere, etc, but I still think this is unfair. It's like asking what the zombies and monsters would do if you weren't alive-- organize a soccer league? I mean, it must be boring there. :P

Yeah, I know the computers are streamlined to make the game simple. But Carmacks big "three pillar" emphasis on GUI controls really had me thinking (and looking forward to) some fun computer toys that I could really play around with. Like maybe the demons would infect the system with a virus or something, and you'd have to figure out a way to block demonic pop-up ads (okay, sort of silly) by going to the UAC system preferences menu. You know, really make that GUI system shine. One the plus side, the non-interactive GUI's were VERY impressive.

I'm going to have to concede on the work environment thing-- it IS a work environment, I guess. It just seems like the architect saw Aliens, and said "well, if that's what space stations are supposed to look like...". And it does add to the "humanity dooming itself" feel, in a way.

[S1lent]

Did it ever occur to you that they were keypads and not personal computers? I mean, the ones in the elevators are keypads. The ones in the workstations are also keypads because you can't use the keyboards...These aren't PCs, they're simply keypads which carry out simple functions (except for when you have to move the toxin-leaking barrels).

The settings aren't "too moody" because it's a science laboratory-like work space on Mars in outer space. There aren't any daises and rainbows there. Not to mention it's a military base as well. Otherwise, it's a research facility, not a Holiday Inn.

You never got to see any of the scientist or marine quarters either. All you see is are the labs and hell. The walls aren't going to be made of plaster and drywall in outerspace on Mars either so it'd be hard to put up your pretty pictures, paint, and wallpaper on the walls too.

[Wobbo]

I definitely agree with EsH about the design of the base, its kind of ridiculous

the problem is also that id didnt think f any CONTRAST. What i mean is the game shoudl have started out *happy* and *bright*, whihc would have made the scary parts much more dark by comparison.also, you dont ge the "ruined base" feel because theres no *good* clean base to compare it too

when i first walked in and you see the caution markers and broken lights i almost thought that the invasion had started already

bottom line there really wasnt much of a transition, because the mars base wasnt *human* to begin with

[Xenaero]

Well i'm SORRY if this GAME isn't perfectly realistic for you people. ^_~

[Wobbo]

DD_133 said:

Well i'm SORRY if this GAME isn't perfectly realistic for you people. ^_~

you made it?

actually, really the complaint isnt about realism as atmosphere and mood - i think it would of bben better if id had made acontrast between teh humanity of a reaserch base and then it become stanic by a demon invasion

[EsH]

Guys I'm not complaining about the game at all! I'm playing through it for the FOURTH time, and I'm still having a ball. Well, well worth the wait.

---------------------------------
Did it ever occur to you that they were keypads and not personal computers? I mean, the ones in the elevators are keypads. The ones in the workstations are also keypads because you can't use the keyboards...These aren't PCs, they're simply keypads which carry out simple functions (except for when you have to move the toxin-leaking barrels).
----------------------------------

Yes-- I'm not talking about the lifts and the door pads, but the full fledge computers terminals that the scientists obviously do complex work with. It's just that I think it was a lost opportunity not to have the computer workstations that the scientists use be a bit more complex. Playing around with more complex GUI's would have been a great way to enhance the sense of realism, allow the player to ferret out what scientists were working on, and to provide an occasional change of challenge for the player in the form of light OS/IT oriented puzzles.



...


As a quick addition to my GOOD list, the game actually does have a lot of replay value IMHO-- for one, you really can't appreciate stuff fully the first time, because you just too scared to concentrate on much except your aim. It's fun just going back, after your more comfortable, and just have fun admiring the surprises, the animation, and the quality. Also the game isn't totally linear-- there is some exploration, and you're sure to miss stuff the first time around.

[S1lent]

Did you buy the game to sit at a computer, USING a computer? I bought the game to play Doom, not sit infront of a terminal.

How, in any way, would making the terminals and computers more complex add to the gaming experience?

[God Mode ON]

was anyone else watching the tv and noticing how lamely staticy it was, and it was HUGE, it shoulda been about .00000003 thick since its the futcher, and how come cardboard is still used for to go burgers??? damnit!! they should be titanium YEAH lol, quake 43 wewt!

[S1lent]

How do you guys know what the future is going to be like? Honestly, you guys are trying to convince us that you know what will and will not be in existance more than 100 years from now.

I watched the TV and it didn't seem staticy to me at all. Besides, who knows, maybe TVs like that will be a higher definition. Besides, it's a military base, they don't pay top dollar for televisions. They'll find the cheapest but best quality TV they can find.

[God Mode ON]

well in the future do u think vaccume tubes will exist?? im doubting it, lcd will probably be old news in about 20 years anyway, and the hd of today will be the hobo in the alleyways tv in 60 years, its called a guess or have some imaginaiton?

[EsH]

S1lent said:

Did you buy the game to sit at a computer, USING a computer? I bought the game to play Doom, not sit infront of a terminal.

How, in any way, would making the terminals and computers more complex add to the gaming experience?

With extra complexity in the computer systems, the player would have to spend a few (relatively brief) moments to figure out what to do. This would provide mental stimulation, as a small break from the more viceral action.

There actually is a light example of this in the game, where what you have to do with a terminal isn't completely obvious, and you have to use your brain to figure out what to do. It was that terminal where you had to flip through the security camera, and you realize that one of them is pointing at a meeting room with a security code printed on a screen. It wasn't rocket science, but you had to play around with it, and realize where and what the prize was. This principle should have been extended to many more terminals-- you should have to manipulate the interface to figure out what to do, it should give you a pause. Otherwise, it's just a flashy way of presenting the standard fps buttons.

[S1lent]

I'd say that there's enough imagination in Doom 3 already. Besides, these are just random assumptions, there's no real evidence that can back that up anyways. I mean, 30 years ago we thought we'd have a colony on the Moon by 2000, but guess what, we don't. Assumptions about the future don't always turn out the way we think they will and that rule applies to this as well. The way I see it, this was id softwares interpretation of what the future would be like and if you think it would be different than go out and make your own version of Doom 3.

[EsH]

It has nothing to do with lack of imagination-- Doom3 presents an amazingly detailed, immersive world and I'm not debating that in the least. Quite the opposite-- I wouldn't bother making such minute, picky observations if the game was more seriously flawed. In regards to the computer system, it's just a matter of more fully utilizing the GUI surface technology and further enhancing the realism they've put into everything else.

Okay, I don't know what life will be like three decades from now. For all I know, dark and gloomy might be the big style (maybe gothic architecture made a comeback or something). I know it's id's interpretation-- it's good interpretation. But it doesn't mean we can't discuss that interpretation. People still critique Beethovan's symphonies-- it doesn't mean we don't think that they're full of imagination and genius. It's just what we do to keep the work dynamic and alive. Someone once said that a religion is truly dead when there is noone left to question it.

Anywho, back to the topic at hand-- why, for example with networking available, would all of these small electronic machines and dodads need be be crammed into the users desk space-- they should be kept remotely, and accessed through one terminal. It would be like if Nasa decided to put the spaceshuttle launch pad right in the control room. And why are the desks METAL?! It's MORE expensive, and hard to move. Military environments need to be flexible, I know that much. People change offices, offices become storage rooms, etc... What do you think?

[Joe]

I think you should stop complaining about all the stuff that wasn't in the game, you didn't like or thought was unrealistic and add it to the game yourself. If you care enough to write massive posts about all this stuff that you want, or didn't like just add it!

Thats why ID included the editor, so you can change the game to how you'd like it and to add your own levels, which show your view of this future.

Joe

[DMFDxUconn]

The more i play this game, the more i love it. Yea its a different pace from the wide open maps of the original DooM, but this game has scared the bejeezus outta me more than once. I like the dark creepy feel of it. At first i thought i wouldnt like having to switch back and forth from the flashlight to my gun, but that makes it all more real for me. When i have a gun in my hand, im mowing through the level, as fast as i can.. "fuk any demons i might see.. BLAST em". But when i got the flashlight out, i find myself moving slower and getting ready to chit my pants.. AGAIN.

[Wobbo]

I really think you guys should comment on what the person says and not the person him or herself. A lto fo the people that are defending every last little detail of doom3 are really takign the critisicm way too seriously. Its been happening a lot lately, critisicm of the *game* is nto a personla insult, unless you work for id, and even then its constructive.

As for saying we have no evidence of what the future will look like, thats absolutely ridiculous. we have FLATSCRREN TVS RIGHT NOW anyhow! Lots of the technology in the game looks outdated *right now*

Esh is right on target, ive worked in and with many industrial areas as a part time custodian, and hes excactly right, way too much metal, and uncomfortable materials. the whoel base looks like a 1950's basement, with huge wires, pipes and no reliable lighting