negotiate with terrorists

[m0l0t0v]

Al-Qaida has threatened the Netherlands with terrorist attacks if we don't call our troops back out of Iraq. The Dutch government states it will not comply because it refuses to negotiate with terrorist.

When I was young I was told not to resort to violence but always try to talk things out. Was I the only one who was taught this lesson? Why do we have to kill all these socalled terrorist and tens of thousant of innocent people in the process? They want to talk, so why don't we?!

Bush tells us terrorists should not be regarded as people and their demands should not be even considered, but isn't this an incredible dangerous way of thinking?
Throughout history this is the way leaders have spoken about enemies to make fighting/ killing them so much easier. Many people would have moral problems with mass-murdering their fellow human beings, but when you portray them as 'untermenschen' or maniacs it is a whole lot easier.

Time and time again people have come to see that their former enemies were human after all. Is it so far fetched to see Al-Qaida as humans? Is it so hard to believe they too have emotions, and motives besides hate?

Al-Qaida demands the US withdraws from of third World countries. I agree the US should. Not because I am a muslim fundamentalist, but because the US has commited mass-murder, oppression, femine and imperialism. In the last 50 years the US has attacked 50 countries and killed millions of (innocent) people. The US is the greatest threat to peace and equality in the world.

When you kill and oppress so many people you are bound to make a lot of enemies. IMO 9/11 was a logical progression. I'm not saying it was justified, all I'm saying it that you can't kill millions and then expect people not to strike back.

Al-Qaida are not monsters, they are humans just like us so we should treat them as such. Sure they are murderers and they don't deserve our respect, but neither does Bush and we still listen to him. Perhaps if we just look at their demands we might come to see we can co-exist without violence.

Simply saying "we don't negotiate with terrorists, we just kill them" will only get us more killings. We are not going to 'give in' to their terror, yet we expect them to give in into ours? Where is the logic in that? Do you honestly believe we can withstand more horror than the 'fundamentalists'.

I think we should negotiate. Not because we are afraid but because we are all human.

[Job]

Places to Relocate to After the US Fucks Up:

- The Netherlands
- Japan
- New Zealand
- Canada

[Submerge]

Simple. If we bend to the terrorists' demands once, what happens? They do it AGAIN. And if we do what they want again? They threaten AGAIN, and pretty soon, EVERYONE will be doing it, and make things more of a mess than they already are.

The sad truth of the matter is:

THERE IS NO RIGHT SOLUTION TO WHAT IS HAPPENING. NONE.

I'll shut up now. Good day.

[fodders]

The demands are not too unreasonable. Get out of Saudi Arabia and other moslem countries. Give Palestine back to the Palestinians. Stop killing moslems.
Seems a no brainer to me.

[etimmerAZ]

I smell a Troll here, but I'll bite anyhow.

Al Qaida are all bad people. They kill eveyone including the inocent Muslims. Don't think that if the Netherlands pulls out it troops that they will all of a sudden leave them alone. It might stop them for a few years, but they will put the rest of the west back in their sights soon.

Unfortunaly there is no easy solution. They have to be stopped. The US is not a bad nation and they do not rape, murder and pillage any more, or less, than the rest of the world.

No one likes to be bombed. The bottom line is that no matter what happens, no matter in what manner things are resolved in (i.e. The whole world does exactly what Al Qaida wants. [Believe me they wouldn't.]) one fact remains: The leaders (Bin Ladin and the Western Leaders) execute their plans but it's the inocents in the middle that pay the ultimate price.

This is only going to get worse. Thank [insert diety of choice], I got guns.

[DaJuice]

Like Submerge said, there really is no realistic solution. Stopping terrorism would mean that world powers would have to make concessions and take actions that are not in their best economic interests, for the benefit of the rest of the world. Fat chance.

[deathbringer]

"We'd like to help you." the consul said
"But there's nothing we can do
Well, you knew the risks when you took the job
After all you're not a fool
So, don't call me, don't call me
I just can't bend the rules
Keep your chin up, I know it's tough
Somehow you'll get through."
It seems the Americans bargain and rescue
But if you get caught you're left to rot
Under a Beirut, under a Beirut Moon

(Chorus:)
Under a Beirut Moon
Sorry son, there's nothing we can do
Under a Beirut Moon
Different rules, we haven't got a clue

"We can't be seen to be giving in
To these terrorists you see
If we talk with them it would mean the end
Of all that we hold dear
So don't call me, don't call me
I'm doing all I can
Although it seems from where you sit
I don't give a damn."
Back home they'll remember you in papers, on TV
Because when you're caught you're left to rot
Under a Beirut, under a Beirut Moon

(Chorus)

And though you dream of being free
There's not much hope that I can see
Under a Beirut, under a Beirut Moon

Now just today on the news I saw
A hostage walking free
He talked of how it came about
He gained his liberty
He said, don't give up, don't give up
Argue, beg and plead
Keep the pressure up, don't let it drop
Somehow you'll get free
He said the Americans would bargain and rescue
But when Brits get caught they're left to rot
Under a Beirut, under the Beirut Moon

[Infinite Ammunition]

Uh huh it's that easy

[Quast]

etimmerAZ said:

Don't think that if the Netherlands pulls out it troops that they will all of a sudden leave them alone. It might stop them for a few years, but they will put the rest of the west back in their sights soon.

How do you know this?

Do you really think they're making threats...just because they can...for shits and giggles?

DUDE, they want all western & european influence out of the middle east. Terrorists, and terrorism are/have a political agenda. You think they trained and planned for years, then hijacked those planes and used them against us because they had nothing better to do?

[Sharessa]

We should have given them what they wanted when all they wanted was half of Israel.

[myk]

Terrorists are all about negociating. They don't bomb things without a justification, since they need all sorts of reasons and support to do it. One thing they certainly need it harshness from the opponent's side. Then they earn the okay to do as they do. The main reason terrorists are look on so badly is that we're "westerners" and they are "middle-eastern" and because they target civilians. But when you come to think about the situation of power and the way western powers intrude in the middle east, you wonder what other sort of retaliation middle-easterns could come up with other than terrorist attacks once in a while. The situation is justified by the circumstances; which require invading troops in muslim lands.

Non-negotiation is homicide.

[Bucket]

Danarchy said:

We should have given them what they wanted when all they wanted was half of Israel.

Wouldn't have happened, ever.
"We" wanted Israel for "ourselves".

[Terra-jin]

Well, then what's the goal of the terrorists?

The al-qaida kills innocent people. That makes them just as bad as anyone can get. What are they trying to accomplish with it?

If the terrorists aim for global muslimization, then they must be stopped. If they aim to get their land back, then maybe talking is the best option.

[Black Hand]

Terra-jin said:

Well, then what's the goal of the terrorists?

The al-qaida kills innocent people. That makes them just as bad as anyone can get. What are they trying to accomplish with it?

If the terrorists aim for global muslimization, then they must be stopped. If they aim to get their land back, then maybe talking is the best option.

Couldn't have said it better. Though I do like Isreal right were it is.

[Janderson]

They are trying to prove that if they aren't listened to there will be consequences.

Anyway, America loves and supports Isreal right? So why don't they make a state for the Isrealies there in America. It would be symbolic. The country of God taking in God's people, or some shit like that.

I think we should definatly withdraw, some of the countries would lose out on tourism and turn on Al-Qaida.

[Captain Red]

Maybe everyone should just pull the plug on them altogether, no trade deals, no aid, no troops, no tourism, no commutation, and just leave them to sort there shit out. When they do, we'd start working with them.

Janderson said:
Anyway, America loves and supports Isreal right? So why don't they make a state for the Isrealies there in America. It would be symbolic. The country of God taking in God's people, or some shit like that.

I agree, but the US isn't on holy lands or something.

[etimmerAZ]

Danarchy said:

We should have given them what they wanted when all they wanted was half of Israel.

Ummm . . . Al Qaida has nothing to do with the Palestinian issue. They just use it to justify murder. In fact Al Qaida would be fighting with the Palestinian if they were next to each other. They differ in ideologies.

Quast said:

How do you know this?

Do you really think they're making threats...just because they can...for shits and giggles?

DUDE, they want all western & european influence out of the middle east. Terrorists, and terrorism are/have a political agenda. You think they trained and planned for years, then hijacked those planes and used them against us because they had nothing better to do?
[/B]

This is not about power to the people. This is about power to certain people. If all westerns influence was removed from the Middle East all the Arab Countries would be plunged into super-poverty and despotism. At that point they would still blame the West for the troubles (because the governments would point to the west to get the people off their backs) and then they would have millions of willing Suicide Bombers. In fact this is what the Saud Family did to keep control of Saudi Arabia.

As soon as the Oil runs out, Al Qaida will have what it wanted. But they still will want the West to die.

[deathbringer]

I imagine that only the terrorist's leaders REALLY belive that westerners are 'heathens' who all must die because thier choice of religion is wrong, the 'ground troops' if you will, are generally decent people who are brainwashed by years of hearing the same bullshit and 'selective' terrorist information (ie concentrating on the times western troops have killed civlians, and leaving out the times they have given aid to starving people, remember that a lot of the rank and file terrorists are just normal starving people who are recruited) they become fanatics. If i remember correctly, there was a recent story about a suicide bomber who gave himself up because he was walking around an occupied city in iraq looking for a 'good target', and saw westerners helping to re-build, giving people food ect

[m0l0t0v]

I imagine that only the Allied leaders REALLY belive that Arabs are 'terrorists' who all must die because thier choice of religion is wrong, the 'ground troops' if you will, are generally decent people who are brainwashed by years of hearing the same bullshit and 'selective' capitalist information (ie concentrating on the times non-western troops have killed civlians, and leaving out the times they have given aid to starving people, remember that a lot of the rank and file terrorists are just normal ignorant people who are recruited) they become fanatics. If i remember correctly, there was a recent story about a soldier who killed himself because he was walking around an occupied city in iraq looking for a 'good target', and saw westerners rape, torture and mass-murder people.

All sodiers are the same whether they fight for the US, Europe, Allah, Stalin etc. We cannot condemn others and then send in the troops to do the same.
Soldiers don't bring peace; they bring war...

[Sharessa]

etimmerAZ said:

Ummm . . . Al Qaida has nothing to do with the Palestinian issue.

Maybe not directly, but they would have never existed if it wasn't for the Palestinian issue (and T.E. Lawrence).

[gatewatcher]

Terrorists aren't reasonable people, if they're not killing Americans, they're killing somebody else.

[Captain Red]

How would you know? We’ve never reasoned with them.

(Oh, and dropping dried food with American propaganda written all over them doesn’t count as "reasoning".)

[Black Hand]

Captain Red said:

How would you know? We’ve never reasoned with them.

(Oh, and dropping dried food with American propaganda written all over them doesn’t count as "reasoning".)

Can you show me a sample of this propaganda covered food, just take a picture or something and host it on a website or something, anything at all?

Hell can you even Photoshop some fake evidence of your claims?

Or how about a tiny shred of evidence that we don’t reason with terrorists, that’s going to be pretty damned hard to prove, especially with that Yasser Arafat guy roaming around.

Hmmm somehow I’ve gotten the impression that you’re full of it.

"Terrorists aren't reasonable people, if they're not killing Americans, they're killing somebody else."

Hit the nail right on the head.

[myk]

gatewatcher said:
Terrorists aren't reasonable people, if they're not killing Americans, they're killing somebody else.

True; and that's why you're not voting for Bush.

[Captain Red]

Black Hand said:
Hmmm somehow I’ve gotten the impression that you’re full of it.

[Ignore this site]

You people simply can't grasp that this is a symptom of what YOU have been doing for the last 50 years.

[Black Hand]

"Copyright 1998-2004
World Socialist Web Site
All rights reserved"

Like I’m going to trust a dirty communist. -.-

Propaganda food/charitable handouts, obviously this was to pacify the starving public, if these food "gifts" had a little tag on them encouraging the people to revolt against their government then I might agree with you but they only say "this is a food gift from America" there is absolutely no negative or downside to this whatsoever, yea giving free food away is just an American trick used to trap people into a repressive government.

I withdraw my “your full of it” comment in respect that TECHNICALLY the food does count as propaganda…, because it encourages people not to kill Americans, I suppose…

But I’ve got to say if there’s any sinister political agenda its on that website

http://www.wsws.org/cgi-bin/birdcast.cgi

Just look at that bull shit
“Submit five email addresses so we can quickly warn the world that the Americans are feeding starving people!” "OMFG TEY MUST BE STOPPED!"

If you have a website that actually has a shred of evidence that this food drop ever took place I’m all ears.

[Captain Red]

Black Hand said:
"Copyright 1998-2004
World Socialist Web Site
All rights reserved"

WTF?

DAMMINT! Well there goes my credibility. I just grabbed the first thing that popped up on google. Sorry, you are quite right, you shouldn’t trust that sight. Here's one from CNN
But anyway, the US dose drop propaganda pamphlets and blast pro-US messages over megaphones from low flying aircraft. It's stranded operating procedure. I don't have a problem with that except when people try to pass it off as negotiating. it’s propaganda, plain and simple. Both sides do it.

[pritch]

You don't negotiate with terrorists because they are by definition intent on causing danger to civilians. For a governemnt to do that would cost them all credibility, and like it or not that's how the world works.

First thing that has to happen, as in NI, is for people to agree to give up arms. It took a very long time there and is even less likely to succeed elsewhere. Sucks huh?

[myk]

You mean, like, the British & U.S. military, the Al-Qaeda, and other such groups all need to be disarmed for things to work out... like in Nigeria? I guess... not a bad idea, after all.

I'm not too sure the U.N. could enforce that at this point, though. Maybe some day.

[m0l0t0v]

Or how about a tiny shred of evidence that we don’t reason with terrorists, that’s going to be pretty damned hard to prove, especially with that Yasser Arafat guy roaming around.

Er... are you questioning the fact that the Allied forces have a policy not to negotiate with terrorists?!

The reason the West negotiates (or at least pretends to) with Arafat is because he is an elected leader of an official state.

You don't negotiate with terrorists because they are by definition intent on causing danger to civilians. For a governemnt to do that would cost them all credibility, and like it or not that's how the world works.

The US has nukes and other WMD. These wepons can only be used to destroy the innocent. Having these weapons (and using them) clearly demonstrates the 'intent on causing danger to civilians'. Neither terrorists nor the US government hold any credibiltiy, they are both evil.

Hopefully the EU will be strong someday, so we won't have to suck up to the US anymore...