Hellknights too Weak?

[sandmanfvr]

Well I just got past Hell and I am almost done with the game (Don't flame cause I haven't finished it, I am not 15 or something and have all day to play. I am 26, got a job and start a new semester of college Monday) Anyway, was it me or the Hellknights seem weak? I mean the first two went down in just 1 BFG blast. In Hell, the first Hellknight tool 6 or 7 shotgun blasts, and they were the meaner ones. To me, the Mancubus' health and the Hellknights health need to the be swapped. Was I the only one who felt like this after the Hell level?

[Xulld]

Well You are probably right to some degree, I havnt really thought about it really. The hell knights dont really offer up much of a challenge unless cornered. Now I remember the Hellknights of old fired faster on higher diffculties.

What difficulty are you playing it on? And does anyone know for sure that difficulty affects armor or health of said demons? hmm Ill have to look in the .pk4's

I know they fire faster and fight more effectivly on high difficulties im playing it thru on Vet(3/4done) and NM(1/4done) simultaneously :)

If you watch my movie the HellKnight and Spider, and the Maggot/imp attack were all on Vet, all else was on Marine.
My movie is a phat spoiler tho dont watch till youve beat it.
http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27182

[sandmanfvr]

I figured the game was ubber hard and just played normal/marine. But even on lower difficulties in the old Doom's, the Hellknights were powerful. Hmm, maybe just me.

[Rusk]

The original Hell Knights were weak, too.

It only took like 3 rockets to kill the originals.
I think it took 5 rockets to kill the original Baron of Hell. (which is just the same exact monster with more health)

I thought their toughness was pretty much consistent with the original game.

[HybridMutant]

You do make a good point but you could say really all the enemies in Doom 3 are weak unless you're cornerd or attacked in packs....i found the TWO hell knights challenging. So any enemy on it's own Will not pose a great threat in an open space except for something such as an Archville.

[Xulld]

HybridMutant said:

You do make a good point but you could say really all the enemies in Doom 3 are weak unless you're cornerd or attacked in packs....i found the TWO hell knights challenging. So any enemy on it's own Will not pose a great threat in an open space except for something such as an Archville.

Quite true, If your any good at strafe, and know your area then its quite easy to kill every creature.

I dont screw around with archviles I blow them away from a distance on the move with BiGGuNs. : )

[HybridMutant]

Argh those archvilles, if they spawn at a distance by the time i get a shot in there surronded by imps...

[Epistax]

sandmanfvr said:

To me, the Mancubus' health and the Hellknights health need to the be swapped.

According to what I read, the Mancubus has 1000 health and the Hellknight has 900. Swapping won't have a very big effect.

[Rusk]

I might be the only one but I thought the new Arche-vile was a huge disappointment.

I didn't find him tough or imposing at all.

The old Arche-vile from Doom 2 was a badass. You heard that noise of him "power up" or whatever when he first saw you, he was fast as hell and could actually keep up with the player somewhat (the original doom guy ran crazy fast) and he could blast the crap out of you from anywhere as long as he could see you. Once you saw those flames at your feet you thought "OH CRAP!"

The new Arche-vile's fire attack doesn't have great range and you can easily dodge it. The enemies he summons are never usually that hard to kill, and the Arche-ville himself is fairly easy to kill. He's also much slower than the Doom 2 Arche-vile.

He was pretty much the only enemy in the game that I thought didn't live up to his predecessor. All the other enemies were at least as good or better than their original counterparts.

[HybridMutant]

Rusk said:

I might be the only one but I thought the new Arche-vile was a huge disappointment.

I didn't find him tough or imposing at all.

The old Arche-vile from Doom 2 was a badass. You heard that noise of him "power up" or whatever when he first saw you, he was fast as hell and could actually keep up with the player somewhat (the original doom guy ran crazy fast) and he could blast the crap out of you from anywhere as long as he could see you. Once you saw those flames at your feet you thought "OH CRAP!"

The new Arche-vile's fire attack doesn't have great range and you can easily dodge it. The enemies he summons are never usually that hard to kill, and the Arche-ville himself is fairly easy to kill. He's also much slower than the Doom 2 Arche-vile.

He was pretty much the only enemy in the game that I thought didn't live up to his predecessor. All the other enemies were at least as good or better than their original counterparts.

That may all be true. But in doom 3 you have more menuvrability and the way all the charachters move around is a lot more avanced while in the old doom you could'nt move around too much most projectile attacks could not be dodged. So if you had all moving ability you had today in the old doom games practicly nothing would hit you....sorry about the lenth.

[Kojak_Man]

Well, my thoughts are the Hell Knight is more like the original's Baron's (which had a 1000 Hp) and Id just decided to get rid of the 'weaker' class of that demon. However, in general I felt the enemies were far wimpier than their original incarnations, none of the new ones hit as hard as the originals, even on Veteran (Pinky only does 17 Dmg vs. up to 40 in the original, Imp melee only 13 vs. up to 24) Of course, this can be 'fixed' by editing the def files (one thing I'm doing right now for my second run-through)

[HybridMutant]

Thats happend a lot recently the older versions of newer games arn't as creativly as good as the old ones.

[Rusk]

HybridMutant said:

That may all be true. But in doom 3 you have more menuvrability and the way all the charachters move around is a lot more avanced while in the old doom you could'nt move around too much most projectile attacks could not be dodged. So if you had all moving ability you had today in the old doom games practicly nothing would hit you....sorry about the lenth.

Disagree. The only functionality that Doom 3 has over Doom 1&2 with regards to movement is jumping. And jumping doesn't add alot when dodging projectiles.

Doom 1&2 still had sprinting, strafing, and circle strafing.

In fact, Doom 1&2 had the bug where if you ran at an angle, where you strafed and sprinted, but had the screen pointed the opposite direction of your strafe so that the direction you actually ran was towards the edge of the screen, you actually ran even faster.

Doom 1&2 guy could outrun your own rockets.

So I would contend that Doom 3 guy has LESS manuverability. Smaller area to work with and a slower player...

[HybridMutant]

Yes well you say the old doom guy could outrun his rockets, but in the old doom the projectiles travelled much slower.

[Amaster]

The game is too easy overall. Partky because you get so much ammunition. But also because enemies just arent very strong. Most of the times I died were due to falling off of ledges or other stupid mistaes.

That may all be true. But in doom 3 you have more menuvrability and the way all the charachters move around is a lot more avanced while in the old doom you could'nt move around too much most projectile attacks could not be dodged. So if you had all moving ability you had today in the old doom games practicly nothing would hit you....sorry about the lenth.

Eh? The "old" doom marine ran at like 70 miles per hour. He's way more agile than the new guy, except for the inability to jump. The "new" marine would get stomped in the original doom.

[Verdale]

That's because the old Doom guys were made when steroids for video game characters were still legal. ^_~;

Plus, Doom 3 has a stamina bar that limits the length of your sprinting.

[HybridMutant]

Fine then i guess you win. But in the old dooms they were made like serious sam. Hordes of enemies charging at you. but in this new one they are going for a more realistic feel i'm not saying demons and shit is realistic though.

[Verdale]

Comparing Doom 2 and Doom 3 is like comparing Half-Life and Counter-Strike. Each has it similiarities, but each are so different.

[HybridMutant]

Those words are just too true....Not to worry anyway as there making a mod for doom using the glorious doom 3 engine. All the original enemies will be there from doom nothing changed from them apart from the graphics.

[Verdale]

HybridMutant said:

Those words are just too true....Not to worry anyway as there making a mod for doom using the glorious doom 3 engine. All the original enemies will be there from doom nothing changed from them apart from the graphics.

Don't you mean they are making a MOD for Doom 3 using the Doom settings/levels?

[CharlesLagsALOT]

HybridMutant said:

That may all be true. But in doom 3 you have more menuvrability and the way all the charachters move around is a lot more avanced while in the old doom you could'nt move around too much most projectile attacks could not be dodged. So if you had all moving ability you had today in the old doom games practicly nothing would hit you....sorry about the lenth.

agree with this..
in doom 2 everything was in 2d view.. you couldnt jump or shot up or down, it was automatically done.
also enemies usually dont shot the floor so splash damage radius would only hit if you were right next to a wall.

also archvile's was a indeed very badass in doom I-II..
reminds me of their deadly fire atack that would trow you to the sky .

[HybridMutant]

Verdale said:

Don't you mean they are making a MOD for Doom 3 using the Doom settings/levels?

Opps...slight mistake.

[Relica Religia]

Hasn't all of this been discussed before?

Anyways, do you think it would be more effective if all the Arch-Viles in D3 attacked you in pairs, maybe?

[HybridMutant]

That would be uber hard while one hammers you with his flame attack. The other one would be busy spawning, hellspawn. So by the time you've killed the 1st one you'll get swamped by the second.....

[sandmanfvr]

Hmm, maybe it was that I was young and it seemed they were so tough. When I saw the first two Hellknights, I saved all my BFG ammo and hit them with two shots, so it seemed they were weak. But I do notice there IS two different Hell Knights. The grey ones take 1 BFG blast, the Hell version takes 2 or so.