Doom 3 & Athiesm

[Darkhaven]

Ubik said:

IT'S A FREAKING GAME

I don't need to believe that eating flowers allows me to throw fireballs in real life to enjoy Super Mario Bros., why would a game's inclusion of Hell faze my agnosticism?

Although I do confess a certain fascination with all the different versions of Hell out there.

My thoughts exactly, Ubik.

[ducon]

S1lent said:

"If there was no God, there would be no Atheists."

There is no god therefore there are believers.

[S1lent]

That doesn't make sense...at all.

[Relica Religia]

It wouldn't make sense to you.

[mekka]

There's a reversed cross in E2M1 Doom.
Crucified barons in E3.
Doom3 is a remake of Doom.

And the lost soul possessing people by flying through them in Doom3 is "alien technology" ??
What about the ghostly voices ? "Follow me.." / "Help me" / "They took my baby.." (I didnt finish doom3 yet, but i'm thinking it's a ghost from the old civilisation and the "baby" taken she talks about is the soul cube.. Am i right ?)

Saying there is no hell in doom1/2/3 is weird.

[Tetzlaff]

Of course it´s the medieval christian hell in Doom1/2. The last level in Episode 3 is named Dis, after the alias name of Lucifer in the Divina commedia. Most of the level names in Episode 4 "Thy Flesh Consumed" are actually named after biblical scriptures, so it´s pretty clear.

Another point: compare the setting of classic Doom and Doom3 with the setting of Quake(1). In Quake you have your evil beings from a strange dimension which are kinda hellish, but this time not in a biblical way, as opposed to Doom. In Quake, the evil beings are inspired by Lovecrafts stories: ancient beings from outer space and other dimensions menacing mankind.

[HackNeyed]

I believe in aliens but because Quake2 had no enemies trying to anal probe me i totally dismissed the game outright and quit playing it all together.

Really, the worst thing about religion are the damn wars, killing and fighting caused by peoples unwillingness to accept another persons point of view... that said, how a game can affect one in such a profound manner is truly beyond me. The seemingly fanatical Christians i could understand but an atheist? Obviously my reaction is based by my own beliefs which are muddled and blurry, i couldn't even give myself a label if i wanted. However for a game where i am on Mars with a plasma gun teleporting to mysterious places while monsters and the undead-ish claw for my blood i find it easy to suspend disbelief long enough to enjoy the work of fiction this game presents.

Do i think there is a God, yeah sometimes on particularly bad and good days, humans need to feel something less then the pure randomness of the world... is there an afterlife? Doubtful to me. Do we have something akin to a soul, i like to think so and keep mine clean-ish, call it a conscious if you like i dont give a dame. Do i enjoy stories of Hell and demons, be it Doom, Spawn comic, and battles between good and evil... hell yeah!

[Shaviro]

I think hell, in Doom3, is whatever you read into it.

[S1lent]

Relica Religia said:

It wouldn't make sense to you.

No...it just doesn't make sense.

The basis of Ahteism: To not aknowledge God and to believe that you, yourself are in complete control and that the beginning on the universe and how it came to be, by scientific reasoning, is a cosmic coincidence. But, if there was no God for people to believe in, than there would be no Atheists because they wouldn't have a God to not aknowledge. And as a result of this, there would be no atheists.

[Relica Religia]

Atheism means to deny any actual existence in God, not acknowledge His existence but deny faith in him. An atheist does not believe a God exists.

[sambobbilly]

Darkman 4 said:

I am an athiest, and I refuse to play this game, simply because it has a version of Hell in it.

battypuss

[Chubzdoomer]

I'm not an atheist.

I do believe in God and such, but that alone doesn't keep me from playing the game and enjoying it.

Speaking of that, I am now making maps for it since I completed it a while back. ;)

[Zyrusticae]

Tetzlaff said:

By the way, atheism is practically just another form of religion, the atheists belive religions are all wrong and that you can understand the world solely with a materialistic view. It´s just as close-minded as many religions.

Quit twisting definitions.

Religion is belief in a God or set of gods. They usually include a superpower, some kind of ancient text, and some sort of list of principles they all go by.

Religion has nothing to do with how close-minded someone is... Unless they let their religion dictate their beliefs, in which case they become more close-minded than those who don't believe in their religion.

The basis of Ahteism: To not aknowledge God and to believe that you, yourself are in complete control and that the beginning on the universe and how it came to be, by scientific reasoning, is a cosmic coincidence. But, if there was no God for people to believe in, than there would be no Atheists because they wouldn't have a God to not aknowledge. And as a result of this, there would be no athiests.

*Sigh...*
To not 'acknowledge' God? To believe I am in complete control?
You just don't get it, you arrogant asshole...
I simply do not believe in a God or set of gods. There is nothing to acknowledge because they don't exist in the first place.
And it's not just a cosmic coincidence; it's an incredibly well-ordered set of events that spins this world into its present existence (though obviously you'd have some trouble understanding the miniscule details involved in such events).
If you take that last statement, you could put it both ways; if there was no God, there would be no atheists. On the other hand, if there is no God, that means everybody would have to be an atheist. To be a theist is to believe, obviously, in a God or set of gods. Or perhaps the word wouldn't exist at all....

Do you see how that line of logic ultimately defeats itself? Try harder next time....

[Relica Religia]

Well put, Zyrusticae.

"Atheist" is Latin (or Greek, I can't remember). "A" means "no" or "lack of", and "theist" means to believe or beliefs in general - so "atheist" means to not believe in God.

Oh, and for the record, atheism is not a religion - it's simply a descriptive term.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/atheist.htm

[Ubik]

Atheism is not technically a religion, but it can be more properly viewed as a theological perspective; that is, a viewpoint about the subject of supreme powers that categorically denies their existence. It's also true that atheism can be viewed as a religion in that its adherents are often equally guilty of the flaws, mistakes and hubris ascribed to religious belief; I've known more than a few atheists who were as contemptuous and misunderstanding of Christianity as some Christians are of Islam, and this relationship exists between pretty much every theological perspective.

And mekka is correct in saying that it's absurd to believe that all the demonic references and such in the Doom games can be written off as an "alien civilization;" it's pretty obviously intended to be the Hell most commonly imagined by Christians. It doesn't promote Christianity or imply any sort of belief or faith, but simply uses the (understandably fascinating!) premise of a Hell (of any sort) to create a SF/horror combo platter. The concept of Hell exists in several faiths, and exists as a cultural meme even in secular societies. There's no conflict there, simply the use of a cultural idea to make a kickass game.

And, as cultural archetypes go, it's a particularly interesting one if you ask me.

[ducon]

Relica Religia said:

"Atheist" is Latin (or Greek, I can't remember).

It's greek, theist has the same root as Zeus.

"A" means "no" or "lack of", and "theist" means to believe or beliefs in general - so "atheist" means to not believe in God.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/atheist.htm

Gargl, this site is pro-cult! See http://www.religioustolerance.org/scientol.htm.

[AirRaid]

S1lent said:

The basis of Ahteism: To not aknowledge God and to believe that you, yourself are in complete control and that the beginning on the universe and how it came to be, by scientific reasoning, is a cosmic coincidence. But, if there was no God for people to believe in, than there would be no Atheists because they wouldn't have a God to not aknowledge. And as a result of this, there would be no atheists.

Er, no.

Atheism acknowledges the concept of a deity and rejects it. Disbelieves It. Whatever. But we don't just ignore like 90% of the worlds beliefs.

[Darkhaven]

sambobbilly said:

battypuss

Asshat.

[S1lent]

Zyrusticae said:

Quit twisting definitions.

Religion is belief in a God or set of gods. They usually include a superpower, some kind of ancient text, and some sort of list of principles they all go by.

Religion has nothing to do with how close-minded someone is... Unless they let their religion dictate their beliefs, in which case they become more close-minded than those who don't believe in their religion.



*Sigh...*
To not 'acknowledge' God? To believe I am in complete control?
You just don't get it, you arrogant asshole...
I simply do not believe in a God or set of gods. There is nothing to acknowledge because they don't exist in the first place.
And it's not just a cosmic coincidence; it's an incredibly well-ordered set of events that spins this world into its present existence (though obviously you'd have some trouble understanding the miniscule details involved in such events).
If you take that last statement, you could put it both ways; if there was no God, there would be no atheists. On the other hand, if there is no God, that means everybody would have to be an atheist. To be a theist is to believe, obviously, in a God or set of gods. Or perhaps the word wouldn't exist at all....

Do you see how that line of logic ultimately defeats itself? Try harder next time....

Actually...if you look back on the posts. I think thats how someone exlpained it. Athiests are so funny. You say something, they believe your wrong and say why. Then when you repeat what they say they deny it and tell you why your wrong again! Oh man, this is great.

[Zyrusticae]

I think thats how someone exlpained it. Athiests are so funny. You say something, they believe your wrong and say why. Then when you repeat what they say they deny it and tell you why your wrong again! Oh man, this is great.

*Sigh...*
Obviously with that kind of attitude there's no getting through your thick skull.
Care to point out how I'm wrong?
And your throwing around labels like it means something is rather telling of your intelligence. So atheists are the only ones who are hypocrites? So none of your village-raping, crusading, "Thou-shalt-not-kill" Christians are hypocrites?
Oh, man.. this is great...

[S1lent]

raping? lol, now your just making stuff up.

Aren't athiests the one who could care less about a human life, to be more obsessed with themselves than the person next to them? People like yourself. You'd rather name call than to agree with someone of a different opinion. But, your so obsorbed by your own arrogance that you can't open your mind just a little bit, JUST A LITTLE, and try to grasp the concept that there just might possibly be a God and that you MIGHT JUST BE wrong?

Thats the kind of answer you're giving me.

\/ \/ This is mine \/ \/

What I said was accurate. If you don't believe me, than obviously you don't know what atheism is. Look it up, I did, that was exactly what I read from input from Atheists themselves.

The faults of another person should not reflect on someone else. Thats what you're doing. You look at past mistakes by other religions and then when you look at a Christian or a Muslim or a Buddhist, you automatically throw their ancestors mistakes right in their face without considering that maybe that person is differnt. The Crusaders were english, which I am not, they were catholic, which I am not. They took scriptures and manipulated them to fit their own desire, which most REAL christians do not do.

So to call me a "village-raping, crusading, "Thou-shalt-not-kill" Christian is really just an arrogant comment because you don't want to take into consideration that Christians aren't "pillage-raping." There are many, MANY, "mistakes" that ahteists have made over the centuries...but I haven't thrown them in your face now have I?

If you are a Christian and truly live to God's word, than you would not do such things. The Bible does not say that you should take the judgement of people into your own hands. Instead it tells us to forgive, not kill. The fact that people take the Bible and make it a safety net and use it to justify their actions is sickening to me.


See the difference in the two?

[Grazza]

OK, enough. We've had lots of "discussions" like this before (generally in EE though), and they never, ever lead anywhere.