Stop Tormenting Me, Tormentor!

[Cyb]

Tormentor has updated his realm with much new stuff. First off you can grab some new info on the latest ZDoom Community Project which was mentioned in a previous update. There are screenshots and stuff to check out if you can't decide on downloading it or not. There's also an article on the art of Doom editing which will probably be of little use to veteran mappers, but is good to check out for anyone just getting into classic Doom mapping or who hasn't quite gotten the hang of it yet.

[digit@l_pimp]

I don't wanna sound like an ass...but are there still newbies that are learning how to edit for Doom? It's a nice little article, but it's hard to say if anyone will learn anything from it...

FP, again.

[Linguica]

digit@l_pimp said:

I don't wanna sound like an ass...but are there still newbies that are learning how to edit for Doom?

It's never too late to start!

[Schneelocke]

digit@l_pimp said:

I don't wanna sound like an ass...but are there still newbies that are learning how to edit for Doom?

Of course there are. What do *you* think? :)

[Linguica]

After reading through that article I have a question: Where was the part where you actually taught anyone how to make a good map?

All I see is a big long essay on how to throw sectors anywhere they'll stick: walls, floors, corners, ceilings, windows, on top of other sectors, until there's barely an unbroken stretch of wall of floor in sight. For an article that claims to "introduce you in the art of mapping for a engine like Doom" there is no mention whatsoever of actually making a decent level, just how to detail it to the point of frivolity.

[Terminals] are some kind of "emergency solution" for advanced mappers. Why? You can add them always, and if I say always, I mean it! If you don't have any creative or innovative ideas for some new areas of your map, add "Terminals" :) It always works and looks good!

What a terrible mindset. Who cares if the map is room door hallway door room door hallway door room, as long as you put borders along the edges and indent panels in the walls and stick in weird light fixtures and knobs sticking out everywhere and have some flickering lights and blood pools, it's good, right?

This article sounds like you want to teach uninspired mappers that they don't need any fresh ideas, or any concern for appealing architecture or sense of space or flow, because as long as they detail the shit out of whatever boring layouts they come up with, everything is peachy.

[Nmn]

I must agree.
Most of modern maps are just like that-no fresh ideas, only some decent layout which sports nonlinearity, hordes of monsters and a buttload of REPETIVE architecture. Constantly I see computers, pretty lights, but the map has no spirit really. No fresh ideas...
That's why I prefer lesser detailed maps-IMO, the creator sports new ideas to attract the mass, not just uses pretty architecture.. and nothing else..

[digit@l_pimp]

I think that's probably what I was getting at. I know there's people that still edit for it, but not anyone that would need an article like that. It's nice for someone that's clueless, but how many people out there really are clueless about editing... the game's been out for years...

[DOOM Anomaly]

digit@l_pimp said:

I don't wanna sound like an ass...but are there still newbies that are learning how to edit for Doom?

I've been editing for two years and I'll be darned if I know how to make a window. :D

[Rellik]

It's a lot easier to knock someone else's attempt to help out than it is to write your own tutorials. Of course you're all entitled to your opinions, but lets keep in mind that that's all you're offering.

[Manc]

digit@l_pimp said:

I think that's probably what I was getting at. I know there's people that still edit for it, but not anyone that would need an article like that. It's nice for someone that's clueless, but how many people out there really are clueless about editing... the game's been out for years...

I'm sorry but I find this and your previous post quite ignorant. Of course there's people who don't know how to map for classic doom. I mean, do you seriously think that everyone can do it, or has done it? I mean seriously, not everyone who plays doom maps for it, and there are quite a few players who may be interested in starting out. I'm not defending the article, but I think you're quite wrong.

[wildweasel]

Mancubus II said:

Of course there's people who don't know how to map for classic doom.

*raises hand* That would be me, among others. Good article, Tormentor.

[Tormentor667]

@Ling - As you might maybe read: This is just one chapter of the complete article I am working on, the detail chapter. Of course, creative and innovative ideas have to be created by every mapper on his own but it is for sure, not that terrible mindset as you call it. It is impossible to create every part and room of your map completely new, innovative and with an "never-seen-before" effect. And sometimes you will get to a point in your very own map, where no new idea flows to your mind and you lack of creativity. That's where this article might help.
Also standards of mapdesign are explained quite well, for example this border thing or the "flat sectoring". You can argue about the terminal and window thing but just if you really look close on what I wrote (what you didn't as always, just talking shit but don't looking closeley on the important stuff): I said, that these things are tipps to build up your own map, not that you have to copy and paste everything. And for sure, you can't place computer terminals in MARBLE maps, but you can do something else like that fitting the style better.