Do you think it was neccessary for ID to redesign all the old creatures?

[Carp]

I haven't really played Doom 3 because my PC isn't up to scratch and i'd prefer to play it in decent detail but ive had a short go on my friends PC and enjoyed it.

Anyway adding a few new creatures in was nice but do you think it was neccessary for ID to redesign all the old creatures?

The lost souls design hadn't really changed, some creatures are similar and many others nicely redesigned and I do like the new pinky demon.
One wonders though how cool it would have been to see "every" creature from Doom and Doom 2 designed exactly how we originally saw them except in 3D utilising the Doom 3 technology.
I know they were trying to ad a fresh angle to the game by making it dark, scary and more interactive but just to see the exact designs of the creatures in Doom 3 that we are used to seeing would probably have given you a bit more of a "Now this is Doom" feeling, not to say its a bad game how it is.

[Kinsie]

If all the creatures had the same old designs, half the fun of not knowing what's around the next corner would be gone...

[Udderdude]

Reusing the old enemy designs wouldn't fit in with the rest of the new stuff they had added. Plus it would look really goofy. So yeah, I'd rather they redesign everything :P

It's not like everything was totally redesigned anyway .. the imp, mancubus, revenant and arch-vile look very close to their original forms.

[Tetzlaff]

Of course it was necessary to redesign the old cartoonish monsters, and id´s artists did an excellent job with the new designs! It would have looked plain silly if they just copied the old monster designs. It works with a few exceptions, like in the case of the Archvile, or the original Cyberdemon would also look great if you would recreate it for Doom3, based on the old design. But creatures like the Caco, Imp, Pinky, Lost Soul, Arachnotron etc would just look silly in their old 1993 appearance.

I mean, the original monster designs were mostly good, but not that great. I just like them because of the memories... but just look at the Imp for example: the old Imp was just a laughable, amateurish proportioned creature that resembled a clay Golem more then an Imp.

[Deathmatcher]

I think most of the fans, if they were to design the creatures, and I´d like to include myself here, would have recreated the monsters in a very original way. But with most cases, where people go and redesign their original work that they did years ago, there´s always a gap between the original footage and the reproduced material - be it movies, games, or whatever media you like. And everytime the fans come up and say "hey, why does the hell knight not look at all like the old hell knight? , "Why the hell did they make up things like medichlorians being responsible for the Force in Star Wars",.. but, you know, it´s always the same thing. You´ll never get a remake of any kind without any trace of discontinuity. So, I could go out and moan about the new hell knight or that the skill levels have been renamed but I can also go and enjoy the game and accept things as they are. If you want a franchise to be the exact way you´d like it to be...go and create your own. :-)

[Relica Religia]

If id didn't redo all the creatures, then there'd be no point to redoing the game itself.

[S1lent]

I think they should have changed them, but they should have still kept SOME similarities between the 2 models.

Example: Imp looks like it does now, only it has small horns all over it's body. Or maybe instead, have the same skin color.

[dsm]

S1lent said:

I think they should have changed them, but they should have still kept SOME similarities between the 2 models.

Example: Imp looks like it does now, only it has small horns all over it's body. Or maybe instead, have the same skin color.

The new imp has a sleeker appearance to make it look feasible that it can climb. If it had spikes or, as you suggested, small horns it would look ridiculous whenever there's a scripted sequence in which it climbs around in narrow spaces.

I wish they'd given the classic imp spikes to the Wraith though, since that creature is so imp-like (both classic imp and D3 imp).

[Shapeless]

plus the spikes coming out of the nipples. if the imp did in fact have spikes coming out of the nipples it wouldn't be able to raise it's arm. As the muscle would be restricted by a spike growing out of the skeleton's rib.

[Black Hand]

ID software built their own cage and then worked on doom 3 confined inside of it. They never left its cold confines for a single brief moment...

That is why they had to redesign the old monsters.
I would say the redesigns are good but I've only seen like 3 of the games monsters in good lighting.

[S1lent]

I didn't say BIG spikes and I didn't say where they would be specifically...I also didn't mention anything about nipples...

Besides, it was only an example...

[Technician]

S1lent said:

I didn't say BIG spikes and I didn't say where they would be specifically...I also didn't mention anything about nipples...

Besides, it was only an example...

Like he said. They wanted a spideresque look. Smooth sleek creater.

[ArmedCanadian]

I dunno I think it would be cool to have the older designs still. The reason i got doom was because the other dooms were awsome. I think they did a good job with the new skins but they added to much gizmos on them. Demons are not supose to be robotic, they're demons! Like the new pinky demon, they did a good job on it, but for my own opinion i didnt like it. Another example is the cyberdemon. Sure its supose to have robotic parts but not THAT much. Ill admit though that in doom2 the cybermastermind and some others had robitc parts but still. Even those skull dudes are now robotic.
One of my favorite old skins was the baron of hell, with those ram horns and hooves and all that. Thats the ultamite skin, why didnt they use that??!!?!

[Darkbolt]

Can you see a Doom Baron that has been put into 3d walking around in doom 3? I don't think it would fit in very well to the dark area's and atmosphere of doom3

[Black Hand]

You don't know what your talking about, with doom 3s lighting a revamped version of the hellknight would look like a giant black hulking demon creature with glowing eyes... Which is just like the doom 3 hellknight except the remade one would have more “satanic” references, and no I’m not talking about the 666 and the pentagrams they tattooed on the hellknights like pro wrestlers in order to indicate their “evilness.”

Does that not fit into doom 3s atmosphere?

Even the most dedicated fanboys don’t try to pretend that a remade version of the original hellknight wouldn’t have been badassed.

[S1lent]

The glowy eyes thing would have been cool. I always liked how when a zombie would come out of a dark corner, you would see some glowing yellow eyes, then his hands peak out of the shadows followed by the rest of him.

[Tetzlaff]

I also would have aimed for a more demonic look for the Hellknight, now it looks more like an alien brute. Lacking the "knight" part (which indicates something sublime). I would give it hoove-shaped feet and some kind of horns that fit with its new head shape, ram horns maybe. But apart from the HK and the goofy Revenant I´m pretty happy with all the redesigns.

[Technician]

Don't worry people. I have an idea so you can play the game with the old monster designs. Boot up zdoom and play Doom 2. When you feel like a refreshing change, play Doom 3.

[Carp]

Technician said:

Don't worry people. I have an idea so you can play the game with the old monster designs. Boot up zdoom and play Doom 2. When you feel like a refreshing change, play Doom 3.

Yes a refreshing change is good.
For arguments sake would gamers have wished Doom 3 was like it is now if it was released whereby the only difference was the new engine - graphics, physics, 3D, ai etc and the rest was just a rehash of Doom and Doom 2 (run and gun, hordes of monsters, secrets, keys etc) with new level designs of course?

[Snarboo]

I'd say the redesigns are a necessary evil. You loose the classic look and feel of the monsters, but you get to experience Doom all over again with a new look.

If you look at the Hell Knight in Doom 3, it almost looks like it has horns fused onto it's face. Seems like a subtle homage to the original, but I could be seeing things. Personally, I'd like to see the Dopefish redesigned for Doom 3. =)

[XXoXX]

Snarboo said:

I'd say the redesigns are a necessary evil. You loose the classic look and feel of the monsters, but you get to experience Doom all over again with a new look.

If you look at the Hell Knight in Doom 3, it almost looks like it has horns fused onto it's face. Seems like a subtle homage to the original, but I could be seeing things. Personally, I'd like to see the Dopefish redesigned for Doom 3. =)

Isn't it the point to redesign the monster? A change is not all that bad.(In fact, I think it's gives Doom a new lease of life but that's me I guess)

Anyway, what's Dopefish?

[Snarboo]

XXoXX said:

Anyway, what's Dopefish?

A monster from one(all?) of the Commander Keen games that grew in popularity. It's hard to describe the appeal unless you've seen, and heard, it.

I agree with your first point, XXoXX, just so you know.

[dsm]

Darkbolt said:

Can you see a Doom Baron that has been put into 3d walking around in doom 3? I don't think it would fit in very well to the dark area's and atmosphere of doom3

If I ever get time, I'm going to draw a redesigned Baron of Hell that looks freaky enough to fit the D3 bill AND which looks similar to the classic one.

I love the new HK though, but it sucks that there's no Baron with a more classic Doom Baron appearance.

[Vegeta]

The only redesigns that I personaly don't like is the Mancubus, damn it looks like a elefant-fish-strogg, and the caco it's small, and looks more like the octabrain. Other than that, the new designs are good, too bad that they didn't included all the original creatures.

[Epistax]

What can I say I really like the new caco. It'd be far more orgasmic if it were more aggressive and had more health though.

[oscillik]

Carp said:

The lost souls design hadn't really changed

of course it has mate!!

the original Lost Souls: screaming skulls on fire.

the DOOM 3 Lost Souls: screaming cybernetic hell-like heads, with flesh, lips, eyes and mouths that open to reveal some sharp teeth.

design change? methinks so :)

[Sephiroth]

yes i think they needed to. i mean the originals where good for back then. but today they might just a bit comical. like the cacodemon and pinkie.
the newerones are great, however the original colors skins is something you can try. personaly i thinkt he brown imp looks good, try downloading that skin pack if you can find it.