A Christian Perspective

[mewse]

"There is no question this is the most evil game I have ever played"

[june gloom]

wtf

fp

[edit] just read a user comment:

"I see no evidence of any satanic cult influence on ID's employees. Simply using geometric symbols like a star inside a circle or a cross where the horizontal portion is below the vertical line's midsection doesn't strike me as a satanic plot any more than seeing a rainbow suggests a meteorological conspiracy to endorse sodomy."

this man is my badass of the moment.

[cccp_leha]

Haha, fp, evar!

Anyhow, the dude makes statements about the horrible satanic imagery of the game and like a true Christian... keeps playing the game! Oh, the hypocracy...

EDIT: Damn you to hell dethtoll!!! :(

[kristus]

haha.. I guess it couldn't get a better rating. :D

[Naked Snake]

I dislike how Christians assume that because the imagery is there that it is telling you to worship Satan. It's not, it's there to scare you, Satan and Hell are supposed to be scary, are they not? It's a fucking plot point FFS.

[Martin Howe]

Well as it is good-vs-evil and you are the good guy then it is OK.

It is only Christians with their "turn the other cheek" mentality that think good guys shouldn't kill. Then again, I have every issue of every series of "The Punisher" and consider him not a villain, not a bad guy, not an anti-hero, but a "hero" full stop*. After all, you cannot exactly bring demons of hell back to prosecute them. (That is an episode of "Crown Court" that I'd love to see :-) ).

Besides, if brainwashing a child with a belief in a thing for which there is no objective evidence at a time when the child has no frame of reference with which to validate the claim and do it so well that that child brainwashes their child and so on... if that isn't evil, I don't know what is**.

* Of course only because we don't have a decent citizen-protecting legal system like England in the 1940 & 1950s; if we did, THEN I'd consider him an anti-hero or villain.

** I speak as recovering from a christian upbringing. And in case you ask, no I don't hate my parents for it, they are victims of it just as I was and their parents were, etc.

[Martin Howe]

I forgot to say, since sombody in one of the reviews mentioned sybols being hijacked, that the Swastika is not a NAZI invention. It is a Sumerian "good luck" charm* that is at least 3000 years old. Also, the NAZI's is mirror-imaged from the real one.

* When I saw some pre-WWII books on a bookshelf at home when I was a kid, by a famous English author, with Swastikas on the spine, I freaked out until my mom explained this to me.

[kristus]

it also is the symbol of "sun" but I don't recall from where. india rings a bell.

[mewse]

i've been thinking about game design for the past little while and i'm not really sure if anything but death can inspire the same sense of immediacy in the player. survival is our basest instinct, even more deeply rooted in us than sex, and trying to make "non-violent" games is very difficult, unless it's inherent in the game.. the sims has death but it's not called a violent game.. black and white has death but it's not called a violent game.. the killing in deus ex is optional but it's considered violent just because it's a FPS.

[S1lent]

Martin Howe said:

Besides, if brainwashing a child with a belief in a thing for which there is no objective evidence at a time when the child has no frame of reference with which to validate the claim and do it so well that that child brainwashes their child and so on... if that isn't evil, I don't know what is**.

It's the same case with evolution or the "big bang" theory. If people can't teach their children good morals and values with religion (which I don't get why you see a problem with it..I guess you want people to grow up to be jerks), than we shouldn't be teaching Evolution or the Big Bang theory in schools then either. You act as though being Christian is a bad thing. IT isn't. Most Christians are really very nice and very tolerant of other people. It's the extremists (and this goes for all religions) that give them a bad name and really stand out.

He, like you, is entitled to his opinion about a game based upon his beliefs. To simply trash talk him because of it is simply immature and arrogant.

Besides, he's not the only one who felt uncomfortable playing D3. http://eden.org/g2gforums/index.php?showtopic=3788

[logidoom]

im a catholic, and i dont give a shit.....

all of ID's games are single handly the best of the best.... and if a friggin game scares you, then perhaps your just a big friggin puss.

I think the demonic satanic parts of the game give the game what it is: atmosphere and horror...... which made one hell of a great game....


I think any religious nutcases out there who have nothing better to do than complain about a god damned video game need to go back to reading the bible.....

oh wait, the bible has satanic references in it too, guess thats out :-P

~Buckshot

[Scuba Steve]

FUCKING STUPID ASS CHRISTIANS! THEY POSTED IMAGES OF HELL WITHOUT ANY WARNING!!

[Amaster]

Outside of the religious perspective, this is probably the fairest review I've ever read.

[kristus]

I have really hard time accepting religious people. Mainly cause I think they are idiots for being religious.

[Martin Howe]

S1lent said:

It's the same case with evolution or the "big bang" theory.

No. It is not. This is just the point. The BB theory and evolution are supported by huge bodies of objective evidence connected by rational logic. The existence (and, to be fair, the definite non-existence), of a god or gods is not. The old arguments about the "cosiness" of the universe and how lovely it is so it must have been designed have been explained away for years. FWIW, I regard the existence of God in the same way as I regard the existence of the invisible alien research scientist from Dimension X sitting on the kitchen table playing a harmonica that I can't hear. Theoreticaly such a thing is possible within the laws of physics but in the absence of any evidence and given the outlandishness of such a theory, I am entitled to disbelieve it by default without having to prove that it doesn't exist, where as the theist who proclaims that their god or gods exist does have something to prove.

S1lent said:

If people can't teach their children good morals and values with religion (which I don't get why you see a problem with it..I guess you want people to grow up to be jerks) [snip]

You can teach good morals secularly, they are independent of religion. Think about it for a moment, why do most religions and many atheists agree on common themes like "do not steal", "do not rape", "do not murder". These are things that any rational being could figure out for themselves; if you do something to somebody who doesn't deserve it, then you are being illogical, in other words, unfair. Therefore by logic we conclude that we must not steal or rape or murder. Emotion should properly serve as an inspiration to and check-and-balance on logic, not replace it entirely.

S1lent said:

then we shouldn't be teaching Evolution or the Big Bang theory in schools then either[/b].

See above.

S1lent said:

Most Christians are really very nice and very tolerant of other people. It's the extremists (and this goes for all religions) that give them a bad name and really stand out[/b].

Agreed and this is true of many religions.

S1lent said:

You act as though being Christian is a bad thing[/b].

I have to disagree here and say that being a believer in any faith-based idea that flies in the face of common sense is a bad thing, since it makes you act-as/believe-in things that have not been proven obectively as if they were. This can give you the power to adversely affect other people around you who do not believe the same thing, for example, by "infecting" people with whichever religion is in question and causing them to thus harm to unbelievers who depend on them.

For example, the mass-hysteria concerning Princess Diana when she died; I was really offended at this immoral "deification" of her and at the UK Government's spineless deference to it, yet dared not say so in the possible hearing of many people who had power over me (the person I rent my house from, the teller at the bank, the owner of the business that I worked for at the time) as they would get all angry and non-objective about it. They canceled an important cat show for that damned country-wide shut-down, one that I had been looking forward to. The house owner's wife was shocked when she found out that I was playing DOOM during the funeral procession, though fortunately was too polite to say so. Diana was, at the end of the day, part "saint" and part "sinner" but overall nothing special to me, yet the public treated her as if she were a goddess due to mass hysteria and, de-facto, entertained the idea of any criticism of her - rational or otherwise - as a sort of "blasphemy" -- just like in any religion.

S1lent said:

He, like you, is entitled to his opinion about a game based upon his beliefs[/b].

Since that was specifically a Christian web site, I agree with this.

S1lent said:

To simply trash talk him because of it is simply immature and arrogant[/b].

I don't know what "trash talk" means, but I can assure you that no personal animosity was being directed at the guy. But, and it is a big "but", I do reserve the right to state my beliefs as "fair comment" without being falsely accused of gratuitously insulting somebody. I am an ex-Christian and am bitterly resentful at being indoctrinated the way I was. I am the victim here, not the perpetrator. You do not punish a mugging victim for complaining to the Police about having been mugged so would ask that theists don't punish me for complaining about having been brainwashed.

If it were up to me it would be illegal to preach religion to minors and for them to practice it, since it can be as intoxicating (in the more general sense of the word) as alcohol, which is age-restricted. Trust me, I've been there, done it and got the prayer-book signed by the bishop to prove it, and in the standard Anglican CofE, not some extremist sect.

No child should be allowed to take into themselves anything that interferes with their thinking in a non-rational or otherwise immoral manner; in fact, FWIW, I believe that the right to bring up a child as the parents see fit stops at anything the child cannot undo for themselves when they reach adulthood. This goes double for any belief - religious or secular - that is based purely on faith or wishful-thinking with no objective rational evidence to support it.

Regigious freedom of my parents and of preachers stops at the boundary of my face. People have an absolute right not to be crippled emotionally or physically in a way that they cannot repair for themselves if, when they come of age, they cease to agree with the reasons for doing so. My parents, though no fault of their own, and the Christian church violated that right. I still feel uncomfortable about certain thoughts and feelings because of the pavlov-style reaction engrained in me by years of religion, "dont offend god". If I could legally punish the church for doing this to me then I would.

Do not misunderstand me, I have no problem with adults preaching or debating with adults. If somebody wants me to worship the Tree Spirits of Outer Mongolia, they are welcome to try now that I am an adult and can think for myself. But they should not be allowed to interfere with the development of children. Period.

If you wanna move this to another forum or thread or something, that's fine by me, FWIW; however we now return to our scheduled program, "Reviews of DOOM III".

[Dron]

kristus said:

I have really hard time accepting religious people. Mainly cause I think they are idiots for being religious.

[DarkSoul]

This religious crap is getting stupid. Who cares what others believe

[Relica Religia]

I find it ironic that on the Forums, everybody is tired of religious debates, then here they go and paste some more on the front page.

I wonder how long before this thread goes down the hole.

[S1lent]

It's because some athiest feels the need to insult and descriminate openly about other people and their religions. If athiests are tought such good morals secularly, than why don't you use them?

[sgtcrispy]

mewse said:

"There is no question this is the most evil game I have ever played"

Is this really a bad thing? hehe

[Jonathan]

S1lent said:

It's because some athiest feels the need to insult and descriminate openly about other people and their religions. If athiests are tought such good morals secularly, than why don't you use them?

Mewse isn't an athiest (or at least he wasn't last time I checked)

[SulfurOccult]

i don't know about anybody else, but i'm quite pleased when something i like pisses off some people.

[S1lent]

MasterOfPuppets said:

i don't know about anybody else, but i'm quite pleased when something i like pisses off some people.

I wasn't talking about Mewse. Besides, him posting it is only ASKING for religion flaming.

[DOOM Anomaly]

S1lent said:

Besides, him posting it is only ASKING for religion flaming.

So is a religious-based view of Doom III. :P

[SulfurOccult]

S1lent said:

I wasn't talking about Mewse. Besides, him posting it is only ASKING for religion flaming.

i didn't read the thread, i was just commenting on the news.

[S1lent]

DOOM Anomaly said:

So is a religious-based view of Doom III. :P

So people aren't entitled to their point of view? Just because you disagree with someone, doesn't mean you have to flame and talk trash to them...I mean, little children do that. Grow up.

[mewse]

Relica Religia said:

I find it ironic that on the Forums, everybody is tired of religious debates, then here they go and paste some more on the front page.

I wonder how long before this thread goes down the hole.

don't hate on me because there are idiots in the forums. i guess it was inevitable that this comment thread would turn to religious flaming but it's an interesting news item. i posted it with minimum editorializing.

i've sent a comment thread to post hell before.

[DOOM Anomaly]

S1lent said:

So people aren't entitled to their point of view? Just because you disagree with someone, doesn't mean you have to flame and talk trash to them...I mean, little children do that. Grow up.

I'm in no condition to think of logical explanations but what the doodle.

Someone's point of view may be in fact something negative. If you say what you do, then they are entitled to express that point of view. It is only a more direct pointing of going against other things. Expressing a point of view isn't only putting it in the open, it can also be to tell what they feel, whether it be directly insulting or not.

It's a silly thing, but it still runs. If someone puts their thoughts out, especially on the Internet, it is out there to the thoughts of other people, which may in fact be insults.

[S1lent]

But what's the point in insulting and flaming about it? Is it really worth it? Will it really change the opinion of person who posted it? It's just a big waiste of time..

[DOOM Anomaly]

S1lent said:

But what's the point in insulting and flaming about it? Is it really worth it? Will it really change the opinion of person who posted it? It's just a big waiste of time..

That is true; however, not everything that people say will be productive. They are expressing their views in an aggressive manner.