ZDaemon Tourney 2004

[myk]

AdamW said:
anyway, quit trying to bend the definition of professional.

I gave you the main, more relevant definition of professional there. Professionals either go to college, or are extensively trained at work (or both.) That is what defines them as such. The distinction sometimes given in regads to sports is pretty much secondary and shouldn't inhibit a proper usage in regards to DOOM or whatever. Entertainment sportsmen stick to sports almost exclusively during their careers, and thus, to do so, they require to be paid for it. But the pay isn't really a defining element here. It's skill and practice. Amateur sportsmen of the highest caliber are definitely professionals, else they could never obtain superb skill... which is well above the standard for a "professional" sportsman.

A professional is avowed to a certain discipline. A professional isn't necessarily mercenary.

Additionally, and importantly, "professional" has an elite value, since it refers to high level of acquired skill, so many businesses, institutions and companies will claim to be professional, aiming for presitige. Note the case here; a certain type of dedicated DM player who claims excellence.

It's a most fitting term in our context.

[Mogul]

myk -- you are awesome.

[AdamW]

myk: erm, if it's the main definition, why was it definition #4? What happened to 1 through 3?

"Amateur sportsmen of the highest caliber are definitely professionals, else they could never obtain superb skill... which is well above the standard for a "professional" sportsman."

No. No they're not. They're amateurs. Amateur and professional in sporting terms are opposites. You can't be both. Professional is what you become when you stop being an amateur. I can't even believe we're having this debate, you're just so clearly utterly wrong. If you originally wanted to say that people who play Doom very well practice a lot and are amazingly good at it, yes! Yes they are and yes they do! But they're not bloody professional. The other definition you're bringing in now is 'professional' as applied to a range of 'conventional' jobs - lawyers, doctors, accountants etc. That's completely irrelevant to Doom as well.

[Fredrik]

You didn't say "the main definition", you said "the beginning and end of the definition". Why would it end at 3?

[Mogul]

Professional, not necesarilly meaning "paid," but still meaning highly skilled, is totally appropriate.

Just like we take the "F-word" to mean TONS of different things, including sexual intercourse, to treat someone badly, and just as an expression of dissatifaction with a given situation (and there's more, of course).

Besides, the definitions of the word "professional" is not the main matter at hand.

[AdamW]

hey, at last something we agree on!

But I still maintain referring to *anyone* who plays Doom as professional is misleading and wrong. If no-one who played games was a professional in the usual pastime-playing-related definition of the word, maybe it would be OK. But there ARE professional gamers, and therefore referring to people who *don't* make money playing games as 'professional' is just misleading. It's as misleading as it would be to call an amateur golfer 'professional' because he's very good at golf.

[myk]

AdamW said:
myk: erm, if it's the main definition, why was it definition #4? What happened to 1 through 3?

Three is more specific than, and narrower in scope than, number four, although it's used a lot (in the sports world.) Note how one and two are very appropiate in this case, not because "pro" DOOM players play DOOM exclusively or as a living, but because, compared to casual players (amateurs) they do so intensively just like a professional does in the labor and academic worlds. This term is perfect for defining their character, and definition four certainly puts the seal on the adjective, being backed by the effect of what a professional is ethymologically; one devoted to something (and thus acquiring lots of skill.)

No. No they're not. They're amateurs. Amateur and professional in sporting terms are opposites. You can't be both. Professional is what you become when you stop being an amateur. I can't even believe we're having this debate, you're just so clearly utterly wrong.

You mean by the categorical definition used in the sports world, specifically, definition three? Note that in respect to this old game the dichotomy only exists when comparing the two types of players we are supposely defining, and that has nothing to do with being paid. No one gets paid, unless we count tourney prizes. Only practice and dedication count. And olympic mendalists and such are amateurs in "sporting terms," yes, but they are professionals in the general and proper sense (according to the root definition.)