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AngelOfDeath

GeForce 3

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According to John Carmack, the GeForce3 will run Doom3 at about 30fps with most of the options on. Which is reasonable for a single player game. Carmack hopes the top-of-the-line system at the time the game comes out will run it with all options on, at 60fps.

But to answer your question, the lowest supported hardware is of GeForce1/Radeon level. A GeForce2 (especially a 64Mb model like the GF2 Ultra) will run the game, it'll still look very good, though you won't get very good framerates unless you reduce the visual quality somewhat.

And to all those people who are raving on about Doom3's "ridiculously high" system requirements, keep in mind the game won't be coming out for maybe another year or so. So do as I do and start saving up for that GeForce4 Ultra with 128Mb RAM, soldier !

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I wonder what would be missing if you use a GF2. Is it just enviroment-bump-mapping??

i would like to be able to turn most things on in DOOM3 with my GF2 and run it in 640x480 or something...

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I wonder what would be missing if you use a GF2


I don't think the game will be really missing features on GeForce or GeForce2, it's just that it will run slower than on a GeForce3 or higher.

I have a GeForce2MX myself, I'll see how the Doom 3 Test runs on it when it comes out, then decide on a new video card.

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To mantain believable framerates, I guess the lighting approximations are really crappy at GeForce 1/2 level. After all, those can't deal that many passes.

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well.. nobody except id knows when doom3 will be out.my guess doom3 will be out on the end of december 2002,or early 2003.let's assume they started the work august 2000(when Carmack talked about DOOM in his .plan updade)2 years is enough to make a game IMO.or they may spend much more time to polish it.

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2 years is enough to make a game IMO.


Unreal took 2 years for research, 1 year for basic design, and 2 more years for the rest.


Doom 3 will be prob be out 2004 - 2005..
But if ID wants to do a crap job on it then it will only takes 2 years and be as buggy as my 4 month old take out.

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Doom 3 will be prob be out 2004 - 2005..
But if ID wants to do a crap job on it then it will only takes 2 years and be as buggy as my 4 month old take out.


id will never do a game that takes four or five years to write. It just won't happen. DOOM will probably hit the shelves in late 2002, maybe early 2003.

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Dark Fox - Um, duh, because a true 3D FPS (3D FPRPG, yes, but not FPS) had never really been done before, certainly not one anywhere near as complex and full featured as Unreal. Importantly, network code for multiplayer barely existed either, so that had to be developed too. Remember, of course, that Unreal was started (IIRC), before Quake, yet Quake came out first. Unreal didn't come out until what, near or after Quake 2...? Of course, Unreal had alot more advances that even Quake 2 over the old 2.5D games, and looked far, far better (especially with detail textures, which don't even appear to be in Quake 3, and all sorts of effects that didn't appear in an id game until Q3A, such as coronas).

Not to mention that the game conception was changed several times, and the project experienced various foul-ups and slow-downs, and the team was small(-ish), and the 3D card market experienced dramatic changes during Unreal's development, necessitating further fiddling.

So it's a poor comparison, at best, and frankly, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

You also neglect the fact that despite all this time and effort, Unreal, at time of release, was even buggier than your take-out, and that it took a huge number of patches to fix all those problems, and even then, the netcode was still very noticeably inferior to Q2's. (Unreal was infinitely more beautiful visually, and had a more fun single-player game, but that's a whole other story.)

id has, as Lord Flathead correctly points out, never taken that long to make a game, and hopefully never will. Quake took the longest, IIRC, because it had the same problems to contend with as Unreal, except that because they released so rapidly, they dodged the 3D card bullet, and were able to release GLQuake at their leisure.

Doom 3 is already further into development (to judge from the movies etc.) than Unreal was after two years or more. Perhaps id are just more disciplined and focused? Having one of the best programmers in charge can't hurt them either, I suspect.

The only likely hold-up is "content", I would suggest. As id uses a relatively small (though expanding) team, the "slog" of putting together single-player levels, scripting, testing, modifying, and re-testing those levels will be felt more strongly. Which is why I suspect Doom 3 will be less story and more "interactive environment" oriented, which is to say, you will create your own story with your actions in an environment allowing for a greater diversity of actions. With a game like, say, Half-Life, you need a strong story to maintain interest, because all you can really to is walk, shoot, and jump, in a relatively linear manner. Some areas are more interactive and allow for more solutions, but most of Half-Life was pretty linear, and your actions were very limited. The same for most SP FPSes these days.

With an arena-based game, like Quake 3 or UT, the content is far easier to create. Whilst there is the tweaking and so on, and optimisation of all those destined to be heavily used and abused MP levels, and the programming of the bots, I would suggest that this is alot less time-consuming than programming SP level after SP level, especially if you want replayability.

So I'm guessing that id will aim for a late 2002 release, actually get some kind of MP test or the like out by then, and finally release the game in early or middle 2003 (more likely middle, IMHO).

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Exactly, Unreal was Epic's first attempt at hard work, wich means they scrapped a lot of ideas, created new ones and managed the project in an inefficient way. Kinda like Remedy, that took way too much to develop Max Payne, and they know it.

Check those old pinball games from Epic, you'll see Unreal screenshots. Ugh. No wonder why they started all over again :)

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Me?
I don't know shit about 3d engines?
Buddy, I've spent 3 whole years studying the source code for various engines, including Unreal, Quake 2, Quake3, Lithtech, Doom, and even Wolf3D. I run a UT mod, I made my own fucking engine using Opengl. The render script was over 5 pages long (I'm no programmer so there are probally several shortcuts I could have taken to chop that down)
I'm taking a god damn college course on 3d application structure.
Unreal 1 has the most shitty ass Netcode in the world when it came out. No shit, they where focusing on the graphics, driver addaptions, etc.
Id is making a HUGE leap from q3 with a whole new engine, even with Carmack, its going to be more than 2 fucking years.. Maybe 2 for the engine itself, but what about levels, animations, static models, design, muliplayer asspects, product design, advertising, etc.
Fine, they can get it done in 2 years, but the game depth will be zero bucko.
Listen newb, you've got a hard road ahead of you if you don't start researching what you say before you say it.

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And to all those people who are raving on about Doom3's "ridiculously high" system requirements, keep in mind the game won't be coming out for maybe another year or so. So do as I do and start saving up for that GeForce4 Ultra with 128Mb RAM, soldier !


/me Has had the same 366 celeron for the last 5 years...

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Dark Fox - "I'm taking a god damn college course on 3d application structure."

Yes, and I'm taking a DEGREE, not just a course, in programming with special emphasis on graphics, and particularly 3D graphics in interactive software (ie. games). Anyway, so what? That you are taking a course gives you no special insight into this, and in fact, to judge from your statements, you pay relatively little attention to ACTUAL game development, and thus, I would say, I worse qualified than many people here... Do you want some kind of pissing contest? Perhaps if you were taking a course in games development or the like I could see your point. You are not, however...

"Newb"? Going by the posting number are we? Uh-huh? Perhaps you should instead check how long I've been a member of this forum? For the better part of a year, compared to your year and a couple of months. Not exactly a massive difference is it? If I'm a "newb", I guess you must have only just left that catergory yourself? I don't post, by and large because, no insult to the people running the site and the better posters, alot of the posters here can be a little, um, childish...

So I've only posted what, 38 times? If that makes me a "newb", well, there you go. Boo-hoo for me. I'm so sorry for not posting all the time.

Anyway, back to the subject at hand.

You used Unreal as a comparison. It is a poor comparison for the reasons I outlined previously. You have made no attempt to refute my reasoning, or point out the no doubt obvious flaws in it. Perhaps you would be kind enough to do so?

"id is making a huge leap". Yes, it is. Probably as large as the leap from Doom 2 to Quake. id made that leap in what, three years? less? Even then, they had a false start in the form of developing the RPG titled Quake for a while before changing their minds and essentially re-making Doom (Quake the shoot-em up was, of course, never meant to be called that).

So, I ask you, why would it take five years when the same leap took them three before? Just because a DIFFERENT team took 5 five years to make a rather longer leap (the Unreal team included alot of things not in Quake or even Quake 2, as I said). Assuming I'm right about Q2 coming out near or before Unreal (even with it's slippage), we've seen id put out TWO games in the time it took Epic to put out ONE.

WAIT, anyway, I do agree with you on some things. Check out the latter half of my previous post. I worry about content. Content is what you are worrying about too. You are saying the engine will take so long to code that the content will not be up to scratch if Doom 3 is released soon. I too am suggesting the content may not be up to scratch but for slightly different reasons. I believe the content is already being programmed, or at least designed in depth, moreso than Quake or Quake 2, which had plots and content more or less slapped together late in the day. I believe, however, that to create the complex, immersive SP environment that we want for Doom 3, it may take longer to code the content. I believe id will release anyway, and cut content if necessary. I believe their history shows they'd rather release a game on time with a weak single-player mode, than wait and make that exciting.

Look at Quake 1. Single player is pretty poor, but not awful. Much like Doom, it's just walk and kill. Some nice early use of 3D position and scary monsters (remember when you first saw the giant fire-demon boss? It was pretty shocking, neh?), but not much else. Multiplayer made it a classic.

Quake 2 single player, despite being intended to be better than Q1 was far worse. For starters, it was too easy. I walked through it in a weekend despite going out all night every night, on the hardest available setting, and without being Mr Quiksave. It was boring too, and I never replayed it single-player, nor had any desire to. Multiplayer code was damned good, and improved. So it took came to be regarded as a classic, though more through the mods that were released for it than the game itself, I would suggest.

Let's think about the development of Doom from Wolfenstien, too, not as great a leap, perhaps, but still a significant one, and one achieved swiftly and able-ly by the id team.

Anyway, whilst I feel you are right to be concerned about content, I feel it is for the wrong reasons. Doom 3 will come out by June 2003, period. Probably well before that.

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Oh, and for extra credit, allow me to go through specific concerns:

"Maybe 2 for the engine itself, but what about levels, animations, static models, design, muliplayer asspects, product design, advertising, etc."

Reverse order,

Advertising. Dude, it's DOOM FUCKING THREE! DOOOOOOOOOM! DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM! Everyone in the fucking world played Doom, and Doom 3 will not need some slow-ass build-up advertising campaign like Half-Life. It's such hot property that id are AVOIDING getting the advertising started early, for fear of media burn-out.

Product design. You mean what exactly? I think you have that covered with the other aspects. Perhaps you could clarify?

Multiplayer. I think id can handle itself here. Network code is good enough, no need for the massive rewrites that took up so much time for Q2 and Q3. So not much time required. The gameplay? Trickier, but chances are, even if slapdash, it will be great, if it has all the crazy lighting and physics suggested...

Design. Um, this is different to product design, levels, models and so on exactly how? You seem to be repeating yourself.

Static models - Well, you've seen what I've seen, no? Those models were pretty damned impressive, and the project has apparently barely started. id has also hinted that they have ways of individualizing monsters and so on. I have no doubt they will be of extremely high quality.

Animations - Slightly trickier. id has not got much of record for terribly exciting animations, IMHO, but they do supposedly have help in this area, and I don't think it will take *that* long to get animations of a sufficent level of quality for the release.

Levels - Here comes trouble. This is what I worry about. id's history of SP level design seems to have been downhill all the way. Doom was better than Doom 2 was better than Quake was better than Quake 2 and Quake 3 didn't feature SP levels.

This, IMHO, is the biggest leap id have to make. The leap from mindless blasting with cheating ambushes and overwhelming numbers to subtle and complex gameplay coming from levels which force the player to take more care, count his ammo, and think about his actions.

I don't think they're going to make it, personally.

Instead, I think they will revert somewhat, and cut down on the caution and monster behaviour and build-up horror and the like, and go for more "Come on then! BLAM! You want SOME? BLAM, BLAM! YOU WANT SOME?!"-type gameplay and level design, more shooty and agressive, and alot of people will prefer that. I might not, you might not, but alot of people will.

Of course, alot of this is predicated on assumption. We just don't know that much about Doom 3. Do we even REALLY know how long the ENGINE has been in development? I don't think so. I'm betting since before Q3 was done. Perhaps since before Q3 was started, at least on and off. So maybe id do have enough time to do the content?

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I do believe they're going to make it. Not because of blind faith but because id knows what the people's saying : WE NEED GREAT SP EXPERIENCES AND YOU'RE NOT KNOWN FOR THAT, ID!!

Believe me, they know. And they'll prove us wrong, or at least try with great effort.

Afterall, I wouldn't let my company┬┤s fantastic fame slip away.

So far we have little proof about how good the game will be, but I stare at those shots and movies and I wonder myself : "how could they ruin this chance?" The game's pretty much secured right now, because of the name "DooM" and the impressive engine. It's up to them to turn this into a timeless classic.

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Here comes trouble. This is what I worry about. id's history of SP level design seems to have been downhill all the way. Doom was better than Doom 2 was better than Quake was better than Quake 2 and Quake 3 didn't feature SP levels.


Dude, I've got two words for you: Bumpmapped Urinals. Think about it.

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I do believe they're going to make it. Not because of blind faith but because id knows what the people's saying : WE NEED GREAT SP EXPERIENCES AND YOU'RE NOT KNOWN FOR THAT, ID!!


Damn straight...
Anyways newb, those are some pretty impressive replies, here to cheer u up and help bring that post count down, have a sip of "LIFE".. Or get one yourself..

My account is only that old, but I've been round reading since DW forums first started up, i've only started posting since they annouced the D3 forums. I've been here a hell of alot longer than u...

Your so puckered up this you could not pull a pin out of your ass, who is the childish one for get their panties in the a wad because someone countered what they said.. Grow the fuck up, I deal with immature people like u everyday. Your nothing special.
Arguing over the internet is like the special olympics, even if you win.. Your still retarded.
End of my input..

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So far we have little proof about how good the game will be, but I stare at those shots and movies and I wonder myself : "how could they ruin this chance?" The game's pretty much secured right now, because of the name "DooM" and the impressive engine. It's up to them to turn this into a timeless classic.


i agree,DOOM is their classic.the expectation will be high . but id decide to make the sequel of this classic because of the potential of the new engine.it is their good chace to show that if they want to focus on single-player experience,they can make the good out of it.we gonna see when new DOOM come out..

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Enough with this i'm-older-than-you crap. That wasn't the point of the thread.

As Flathead says : Bumpmapped urinals. Combine that with the bumpmapped extinguisher found in the 1st video, with the broken tile in the bathroom scene, with the mirror that's almost hidden in that shot. Combine it with the detail in the monitors, the smears of blood, the melted metal.

With such little details as these, is it obvious that while we know nothing about the plot, the atmosphere is (and this is granted) FUCKING >A<.

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Dark Fox - Dude, way to get out of actually having to back up any of your "points". With the classic "u r still retarded" comment, that was written by a retard in the first place, I mean, grow the fuck up, either want to discuss the issue, debate it, whatever, or you just want to mouth off like a sub-retarded 12 year-old and have no-one contradict you. You want the latter, so just shut the fuck up, eh?

Of course, anyone, like me, who can type fast and uses words longer than one syllable, and actually thinks through his arguments has no life. Yeah, okay, I'm sure that's the way it is. Again I suggest you grow the fuck up. You can get pretty far in life making retarded comments and not backing them up (just look at any number of politicians), but you're still the actual retard.

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When the Wolfenstein's Demo starts to feel old ^_^


@Zaldron
LoL!
I need to DL it man.. Is it any good?
Been playing CS way to much ;P

@Eurhetemec-I don't deal well with people I don't know insulting me. So if you want to make any friends on this board, pull your head out of your ass.

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/me hides from dumbass flame war...

...but back to the topic.

when carmack said DooM III would run at 30fps on a GF3 with most eye candy on... i wonder what resolution he was refering to. 1024x768 would be the standard i would have thought. so if you turn the res down a bit maybee it will run like 40-60fps?

if carmack meant it runs at 30fps in 640x480 were all doomed! heh :p

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if carmack meant it runs at 30fps in 640x480 were all doomed! heh :p


Haha!
I sure he is reffering to 1024 by 768 which is what most people use.. But yea 30fps is still kinda shitty.. but the geforce 3 out know is only the base card, when the geforce 3 MX and Ultra come out that could change..

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Haha!
I sure he is reffering to 1024 by 768 which is what most people use.. But yea 30fps is still kinda shitty.. but the geforce 3 out know is only the base card, when the geforce 3 MX and Ultra come out that could change..


Good 2 hear that!! :p

hmm the new GeForce 3 Ti500 is out now and the Radeon R8500 is out soon i think.

The R8500 is real sweet, in most reviews the R8500 kicks the Ti500's ass. and the R8500's driver will improove aswell.

huraaah :)

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