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splintrd

Holes in Doom Builder 3D Mode

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Sometimes when I'm making a level in DB and I check it in 3D Mode, I get weird bits that go black. Sometimes it's just triangular-shaped areas, but sometimes it can be a whole sector (exactly).

examples:



And these dodgy bits turn out fine when I test them in Doom. Is there anything I can do to stop this from happening?

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This has been happening for ages for me, but I have never really figured out a way to stop it from happpening. Seeing as it doesn't effect the map in Doom; I just ignore it on the most part.

But I would really like to know WTF on this one...

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If there are holes in the 3d viewer I suggest You do either:
1-Try different Nodebuilders (Zennode, BSP, ZDBSP)
2-Ensure that the sector that doesn't appear is CLOSED and BUGLESS.

Sometimes they can still appear even if Your area is bug-free. If they do than You'll have to live with them.

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Hmm. I've tried all three nodebuilders that come with DB, and none of them make a difference (and I don't get any errors either). I guess I'm doomed to having great big HOLES in 3D Mode. (Updating DB didn't help either.)

What about glBSP? Could I get that to build the nodes in the same way? (I am an absolute noob when it comes to nodes, by the way.)

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I added a random sector and look what happened:



And taking it out made stuff break again. There's gotta be a nodebuilder that 'works' (if that is the problem).

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What Nmn said; First of all make sure your map is bugless. Then you can try using a different nodebuilder. You may need to click the Rebuild Nodes button before going into 3D Mode, because it may not rebuild the nodes automatically when you switch nodebuilder as it knows the nodes are already correct.

I think the problem that causes the black holes is a rounding error in the carving of the polygon from subsectors, but im not really sure. I dont think its a real problem anyway and it does not cause problems in Doom (with original software rendering engines at least), so its not really important IMO.

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I concur here. I think it may have more to do with whatever method is being used to translate the WAD data into true 3D OpenGL rendering. The little bit of testing I've done shows that even if this "error" is being recorded in the compiled WAD, The Doom engine itself isn't... (complete?) enough to be affected.

I'm sorry to hear that it screws up your map, though... Murphy's Law at work, I think.

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Those black holes are really in the way, and one time i came a red fat line straight through the screen, it was anoying

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impClaw said:

Those black holes are really in the way, and one time i came a red fat line straight through the screen, it was anoying

That happens when you have a (real!) crappy videocard or your DirectX or video drivers are not up to date.

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I get those tearing effects and missing sector flats all the time... but as long as it is only rendered wrong in 3D view and not the compiled map it isn't that big of a concern.

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The black holes are basically just more common and bigger opengl holes like you get in some ports. Rebuilding the nodes can help.

Exept CodeImp uses direct3d, not opengl, so I guess they are direct3d holes :P

And speaking of(im no programmer), CodeImp, why did you use direct3d instead of opengl? There have been alot of situations where I have preferred opengl in this kind of thing.

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well given that DB is half Visual Basic, opengl wouldnt help in the mutliplatform dept.

I get the 'holes' too, but as soon as I move a vertice, they go away. On my old voodoo 3, getting too close to an upper texture that isnt unpegged completely garbles the texture, but that is to be expected on an older card I guess...

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hmm
i've got
128 MB GRAFIX CARD
1024 MB RAM
3.2 GHz

So still seing a fat red line through the screen, still thinks i'ts anoying

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It's a cosmetic problem. Your map will run fine.

Of course, there's nothing stopping you from downloading the source and fixing the problem yourself. Let us know how it comes along.

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iori said:

well given that DB is half Visual Basic, opengl wouldnt help in the mutliplatform dept.

Right... forgot about how heavy codeimp is on the vb.

Still, opengl still has advantadges over direct3d as far as hardware goes. Alot of opengl programs(that run) look great on even my STB V 128, but direct3d(pretty much any version) looks like utter shit.

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Be carefull with your farts, MasterOFDeath. Doom 3 happens to use DirectX and somehow I dont think that looks crappy. If I were you, id take a look at my own system issues first, before blaming DirectX for anything. Because DirectX doesnt work right on your system, that doesnt mean I should have used OpenGL. In general, it doesnt make a big difference (see how Doom 3 looks just the same when made to use OpenGL for linux), except that its easier to port, but thats is irrelevant in this case.

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It was my understanding that Doom3's rendering system was 99% OpenGL. He only used DX for controls, 2D effects and such. I could be wrong, though.

But that's neither here nor there.

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CodeImp said:

That happens when you have a (real!) crappy videocard or your DirectX or video drivers are not up to date.

Eh i have a radeon 7000, and updated drivers and i still get that crap too.

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It isn't that, that annoys me( i HAD to seperate the thats, sorry ) but it is when i scroll and i see the wrong textures for different textures. It is hard to describe it but it is like some of the textures are replaced with HOM

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I get that sometimes, and DB crashes soon after, so I think it's a memory/video ram bug..

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WTF?

I don't even have a video card (its an onboard Intel graphics controller -lol-), but I don't ever have serious problems in DB. The only time I see missing spaces is when there are a ton of sectors on screen (I guess it only shows a certain number of sectors on screen at a time - understandible), or sometimes when I have lots of angles in a sector (especialy on curved walls and such which I use a lot) which make little black triangles on the floor or ceiling. Really, none of these get in the way of my editing and they don't show up in the final map so I don't see what the fuss is about.

So either you're doing something really fucked up, or you need to stop whining about csmetic issues and finish your maps. :P

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The problem is simple - the "convex" part is being violated. Neither DX nor GL will fix this for you (nor will new drivers).

The first thing to do is use GLNODES. That fixes most of them, unless the level has "tricks" and then the rendering code has to get smarter :)

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