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Cyb

11 Years of Doom?!

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More importantly, how many other gaming communities have this many creative ideas.

Honestly. I don't know if it is just the Doom engine which lends itself to easier to produce projects, but there is more creative talent in this small community, than the entire Half Life/Unreal communities combined. There are more creative and original ideas circulating this 11 year old game than all the Half Life/Half Life 2 mods combined.

Granted, there is alot of stagnation in Doom what with "Tekbase, Ep1, Castle" themed maps which are quite repetetive, however you never see large projects spawning all proposing the exact same thing. Mainly because the engine is incapable of it, but never are ther "Check out our new Team Based tactical shooter, it will have realistic weapons, damage models and be completely revolutionary", when in reality it is just Counter strike in Space/Wild Wild West/etc.

This is not to say things like Neil Manke's "They Hunger" wasn't amazing (ep2&3 were kindof lame) or that there are no good ideas in other games, but there is just so much more creative talent and ideas flowing through here. With engines probably 100 times more powerful, and 1000x times more beatiful, the majority of mod makers in gaming barely even begin to create things as unique as Grove or Action Doom (yeah yeah).

What I'm getting at is that hopefully this whole 11 years awards thing, sheds light on some of these simply amazing wads being released which triumph over even some of the alleged "best" mods for games being released even just months ago. Physics are starting to be used in creative ways (I saw a trebuchet in HL2) but peope still continue to root themselves in contemporary uses for physics like "Build a bridge" or "Watch bodies fall on the floor". I can guarantee that if Doom had many of the capabilites of games today, this community would find ways of using them to create levels beyondwhat most mod makers now could barely comprehend.

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Scuba Steve said:

Stuff

Build a small torn apart bright Episode 4 map.
The player has to find a rocket launcher which is hidden behind a lot power generator and
find a spaceport which is hidden behind some power generator

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Scuba Steve said:

I can guarantee that if Doom had many of the capabilites of games today, this community would find ways of using them to create levels beyondwhat most mod makers now could barely comprehend.

No it wouldn't, the only reason that people still make Doom stuff is because it's quick, easy, and has a lot of well documented tools. Take my do-it.wad for example, it wasn't exactly quality, but come on, a custom level where all you do is sit in your apartment bedroom and shoot yourself with a backward gun? How many other games have a level like that?

If Doom had true 3D and normal mapped enemies and a full physics engine it would be as difficult to make shit for as any other engine and the amount of creativity in modmaking would shrink accordingly.

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i love do-it.wad. i like to use the title pic in flamewars when i'm telling people to kill themselves.

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Linguica said:

No it wouldn't, the only reason that people still make Doom stuff is because it's quick, easy, and has a lot of well documented tools.


Exactly. If Doom was as capable as Doom3 we'd be back to tech maps. People mod for the latest game to get noticed, and play it safe because changing monsters/textures is a huge task.

The oddball and inventive games came out years ago (jet set willy etc) when the actual capabilities of the games were very limited.

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I agree. However, it is also true that the Doom techbase is better than the techbase theme for any other game.

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Linguica is right :).

It is true that the Doom engine has the benefit of being easy to edit... the engine in itself is simple. Creative minds hate to be stopped/limited by technical details. Actual 3d engines are too complex for being pleasant to edit, thats my feeling too.

CUBE engine tried to make it... not in a bad way...

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Fredrik said:

I agree. However, it is also true that the Doom techbase is better than the techbase theme for any other game.

comparing to Doom 3's? I think not, in terms of graphics-wise.

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You mean like weapons mods and such crap?

Write your own article if you aren't content with Scuba's work.

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Chronoteeth said:

No offence, but I think the catagories shoud be expanded beyond TCs and levels.

Maybe Best Editor/Utility of the year, but that's probably it.

If you are insinuating that Weapons mods be included, then I say that they were never precluded. The problem is that there is little substance to most if any weapons mods. Some of the best mods this year had replaced weapons, so not only did they have new guns, but much more. Most weapon "mods" are nothing more than ripped sprites from other games with dehacked work. No weapon mod even comes close to dethroning the top 10 picks.

Ling: You're absolutely right about complexity, and I did try to touch on that in my post. What I think I was getting at is not (if) Doom was 3D and normal mappped or other words I have no idea what they mean, but if Doom had say, just one attribute like a physics engine of sorts, then because of Doom's graphical limitations members would find more creative uses for it.

Anyways, I do agree that it's the simplicity that allows people to do so much more with so much less. In fact, that's the only reason I still sit around and play addons for a game half as old as I am, is the creative outlet it seems to have become.

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Maybe mods with the caliber of Immoral conduct (this also included many gameplay additions as well), but that was 2k3. Anyways, where's claust?

EDIT: Well maybe you could put a little section for the other wads (weapons, monters, sounds, editors, ect...) Next year?

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insertwackynamehere said:

Why did everyone hate DRE so much O_o I enjoyed it even it was a little shoddy. Of course I agree with everything else on that list though.

Imagine John Romero saying vulgar stuff to everyone who criticised Daikatana.

With DRE the situation is quite similair. There was so much hype around it You could tought that this is the best effort Doom community could ever make, whie it was just a piece of *cough*, but the icing on the cake is how the author responded to our criticism-instead of learning from his mistakes and become a better mapper he called the DW forums assholes in public. That wasn't very nice. And this isn't nice either:
http://www.rampagedoom.com/hellcat.htm
(look at the top table)
The moral-some fucktard don't grow up, even if whole world tells them the reality they prefer to blind their eyes with hypocriticism. Bleh.

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Personally, I hated it because it was just crap. I hadn't followed the hype and I can't remember much from the comment thread, but I remember the thing being crap. I'd rather ripp my nails out with a plyer than play DRE.

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Yeah, heh. You know, now that I think of it, the "folly of DRE" was a three-parter:

Step 1: sucky mapping/ripped MP3s/etc.
Step 2: failing to get beta-testers from anyone who wasn't close to the project
Step 3: his response to the criticism of step 1

I still think the second part was most important, though. Although if you can't take criticism, you don't deserve to really be considered IMO. You know what? The first map I ever released, back when I'd never used a source port and barely knew what Doomworld WAS, was a little library-esque vanilla map (it can be found at my site in my sig). Ling reviewed it, and the bulk of his review was pointing out errors like HOMs and such (he didn't even finish the map). I didn't know wtf he was talking about, but I didn't say anything at the time... I think what happened was that he played it in a GL port (and I never built GL nodes; I never do, unless I'm building a Legacy map). But... these are the things we laugh about some two years later. Heh...

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Scuba Steve said:

Maybe Best Editor/Utility of the year, but that's probably it.

If you are insinuating that Weapons mods be included, then I say that they were never precluded. The problem is that there is little substance to most if any weapons mods. Some of the best mods this year had replaced weapons, so not only did they have new guns, but much more. Most weapon "mods" are nothing more than ripped sprites from other games with dehacked work. No weapon mod even comes close to dethroning the top 10 picks.


Well, just out of curiousity... If you were to include Weapon Mod of the year, what would you have persoanlly picked?

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insertwackynamehere said:

Why did everyone hate DRE so much O_o I enjoyed it even it was a little shoddy. Of course I agree with everything else on that list though.


I started liking it once I did IDDQD and IDKFA. The biggest complaint that I had with it was that the enemies were to strong. The baron should be able to bat them away like they were insects.
_______________________

As far as his reaction to the so-called "criticism" goes, half was constructive, and the other half was just childish name calling like you would come to expect from the endless hordes of "me-too" teenagers that frequent game forums.

His beta testers were probably too agreeable and eager to praise and weren't providing enough good feedback.

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Lizardcommando said to Scuba Steve:

what would you have persoanlly picked?


What would you have picked? I would pick Wildweasel's Extreme Version 2.

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I'm happy that Scuba nominated Orgo Power Facility as one of the best SP wads of the year :D Thanks Scuba, I luboo!

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GodCells said:

oh my god :) 8bit DM won...

I want to thank you for this honnor. I was very astonished when I saw my map there... realy.

But, I need to finish the fixed version... yes it has 2 bugs in the current one... This wad was an experiment at first. I didn't expect that people would like it.


The only thing that bothers me are the blue/red alternate textures.

And you do know about the walk through wall in map01, correct?

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TheDarkArchon said:

What would you have picked? I would pick Wildweasel's Extreme Version 2.


In all honesty, I'd have picked the Doom 3 weapons mod. Even though it's not done yet, by the looks of that thread, I'd say that this mod is the most active EDGE weapons mod out there. Hell, it's becoming even more than just a weapons mod with the addition of new enemies and even levels.

If the Cacowards return next time, and they include weapon mods into the list, I'd have to say that this most likely win the award for best Weapons Mod!

But then again, that's just my personal opinion.

What, did you expect me to say Immoral Conduct: Lizard Edition should get an award for best weapons mod? :p

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No, but you did sound like you were implying it...

Oh yeah, you released a madness interactive mod and posted it on flecko.net, right Lizard commando?

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Chronoteeth said:

No, but you did sound like you were implying it...

Oh yeah, you released a madness interactive mod and posted it on flecko.net, right Lizard commando?


Yes, I did release it, but I can't get a hold of anyone from MadnessCombat.com to host it...but let's just discuss that subject via PM.

Getting back on subject, if I wanted my mod to get an award, I would have flat out said it, probably along the lines of something like this: "Hey, I should be getting some recognition. Where's my reward?" But I'm not gonna do it. I don't even care if I get some kind of awesome award.

Just as long as I know there are people playing my mod, then that's cool. Sure, getting an "award" would be awesome, but that's just extra stuff. The real reward, in my opinion, comes from knowing that people are playing it. I don't really care if they like it or hate it. That's their opinion. Seriously, how many of you remember the feeling you had the first time you had someone play your first Doom map or graphics patch, weapons mod, etc.?

My point is that to me, having people play with something you've thought up and created is more satisfying than any award.

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