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Insomniak

Christianity in Action

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Some missionaries are associated with apocalyptic groups who are on a mission to bring about Revelations as quickly as possible. Some of these groups believe this cannot happen until every single person on Earth has been personally witnessed to and has chosen to accept or reject Jesus Christ. Maybe these psychos are on this kind of mission, it's one possible explanation for such unacceptable behavior.

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Darkhaven said:

I can't believe nobody noticed this off-hand: these "Christians'" logic is flawed as well; "Thou shalt not judge,"

Janderson said:

God has forgotten to grant them the sense to understand 'Love thy neighbour,' 'He without sin cast the first stone' and 'do unto others as you would to yourselves' etc.

I win, :-D

Whether or not it is their job to help people or destroy the world, I thought the origional perpose of Missionaries was conversion. Back when we were colonising and invading I doubt that we gave that much of a shit about the locals, but we kept sending in our disease ridden missionaries. It must have been conversion. Of course I'm willing to accept that the role has changed over time.

Reveletions is probably the best bit in the Bible.

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Those idiotic nuns. I don't understand why some people take their religion so far as to contradict the very foundations of the religion itself. The bible says "love your neighbor as yourself" in the ten commandments, but doesn't say anything regarding converting unbelievers in the commandments. Such ignorance of their own religion is just stupidity.
Although, perhaps they take that "love your neighbor as yourself" commandment so far as to thinking that they would rather have someone lead them to eternal salvation for the afterlife than offer relief in this life. That's the best explanation I can think of for the reasoning behind their idiotic methods.
The nuns acted outside of the bible's teachings. The bible doesn't actually tell anybody to do things like that. I'm sure most christians out there would strongly dissaprove of what they did.

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Jacknife said:

The bible says "love your neighbor as yourself" in the ten commandments


Actually, it doesn't.

These nuns should be judged on their own merit, the bible isn't to blame. I'm sure most christians out there would strongly dissaprove of what they did.


I'm not everybody else, but I can say anyone I tell this to gets this hysterical face trying to understand it.

DC

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NiGHTMARE said:

...just because you can't see yourself wanting to help other people for no personal gain, doesn't mean others can't feel that way.

So quick you are to paint a portrait of one you don't know. For your information, I do a lot for other people. As much as I can, anyway, If I had money, I'm sure I'd give a large amount of it to charity.

Also, missionaries come from all walks of life and all sorts of political and religious backgrounds - it isn't just a bunch of christian extremists. Many missionaries are atheists or agnostics, so you can hardly accuse them as using their vital mission as a cover to "spread the word".

Athiest missionaries? That's a contradiction of terms there. Sure, there are many people who work for non-denominational charity organisations, but none of them are missionaries.

The Merriam-Webster Dictionary, 1997 edition, defines missionary (second definition, the first one is circular) as "a person commissioned by a church to spread its faith or carry on humanitarian work." So, in definition, they have to be religious in one form or another, though they don't even have to be charitable to qualify as a missionary, as could be readliy observed in the missions of yore where Spanish preists told the native Americans to convert or die.

Darkhaven said:

"Thou shalt not judge," (or something to that effect) is one of the 10 Testaments

Um, I have no idea what the 10 testaments are but I assume you mean the 10 Commandments, which are (Ex 20:3-17):

1. You shall have no other gods before me, after me, or over for dinner
2. You shall not create artwork, and you especialy shall not worship it.
3. No saying "God damnit".
4. Take a load off on Sunday, or Saturday if you're a Jew.
5. Honor your father and your mother, even as they beat the everloving crap out of you.
6. No killing (except in the case of martyrings, executions, genocide, crusades, jihads, other holy wars, when I say so, or whenever a priest feels like it).
7. No fucking people you aren't married to.
8. No stealing (except from the heathens).
9. No lying (unless it gets the church more money).
10. You shall not covet your neighbour's ass, nor his wife's ass.

As for testaments, there are only two, the Old and the New, unless you count the Book of Mormon. I think the passage you were looking for was either Matthew 7:1 or Luke 6:37.

Next time, try reading the Bible before attempting to discuss it.

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@Danarchy

Your interpretation of the 10 Commandments promotes a stereotype that's really fucking played out-- and you couldn't make it more obvious that you believe in God just to hate him.

Next time, realize how you've made your own life suck before you blame abstract concepts.

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Numbermind said:

@Danarchy

Your interpretation of the 10 Commandments promotes a stereotype that's really fucking played out-- and you couldn't make it more obvious that you believe in God just to hate him.

Next time, realize how you've made your own life suck before you blame abstract concepts.

What the Hell? Where exactly did I say I believe in God? I don't know where you could have picked up such an inferrance. I don't believe in the Christian god, nor any other god, so I don't know where you got that one from.

The reason I was poking fun of the Ten Commandments is because they're pretty much a joke anyway. Not only are most of them violated by pretty much every Christian at one time or another, but all of them (except maybe #2 and #4) are violated by so called "protagonists" in the Bible.

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Danarchy said:

What the Hell? Where exactly did I say I believe in God? I don't know where you could have picked up such an inferrance. I don't believe in the Christian god, nor any other god, so I don't know where you got that one from.

Subtext.

The reason I was poking fun of the Ten Commandments is because they're pretty much a joke anyway.

I see no punchline. In fact, I find the Commandments an ideal set laws by which to live. Christ's basic teachings are a wonderful amendment to these standards. However, just like the Eightfold Path, no one can ever really "start off" enlightened, so they go through a painful process of learning. Which, I'm sure, is what you REALLY meant by your next comment.

Not only are most of them violated by pretty much every Christian at one time or another, but all of them (except maybe #2 and #4) are violated by so called "protagonists" in the Bible.

Shit comes in all hues.
Maybe I can give you benefit of doubt by submitting that you may not ever have met the same type of Christian as I'm used to (a shining example being my late Great Aunt Isabel). I know some Catholic assholes... but I also know Atheist assholes, Jewish assoles, Islam assholes, Satanist assholes and Rastafarian assholes. Christians get way too much exposure as the Wacked-Out Crusader type-- and when everyone chimes in with their tired generalizing bullshit, it only aggravates the situation and each side of the debate apes each other's sorry attitude.

And as for the Bible: maybe the first time you read the Bible, you're looking for a hero. I blame that on reading too many comic books. That's not what it should be used for, sorry.

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Numbermind said:

Christians get way too much exposure as the Wacked-Out Crusader type

I agree that they get too much exposure.
However everyone who believes wants God on their side. And when people are raised thinking that they are the winning team their pride gets in the way of their faith, they are blinded by their own rules. It's this small group of asshats that actually think that they are already doing God's work and proclaiming they are the just etc, that give christians a bad name. It doesn't help either that some of these people have ended up as leaders. Bush for example, overused I know.

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**THIS POST DELETED BECAUSE DC REALIZED HE HAD NO HOPE OF ACTUALLY SAYING SOMETHING USEFUL. YOU MAY RETURN TO YOUR REGULARY SCHEDULED FLAMEWAR.**

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Numbermind said:
and you couldn't make it more obvious that you believe in God just to hate him.

That's similar to the stance of guys who accost others in a verbally explicit homosexual way to label them gay.

Unrelatedly, God forbids creating images of aliens, galaxies, blind salamanders, underground grottoes, fish, sunken ships, and whatnot. Astronomers, spelunkers, and Jacques Cousteau's friends better beware!

Considering the great rifts between many parts of the old and new testaments, I wonder whether Jesus (if he existed as such) actually planned to just ignore the old testament and then others packaged the two together to not lose touch with tradition.

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Numbermind said:

Subtext.

Look, I'll just say it plainly. I am not a Christian or an ex-Christian or an anti-Christian or an agnostic semi-Christian or any of those things. I was born and raised an atheist (my dad being a very scientific-minded person and my mom being a spiritual ex-hippy that was kind of into Buddhism), and I have chosen to just create my own beliefs and stick with them. It works well for me. There is no specific religion that I hate (except maybe Scientology, but that's really just a money-making scheme), though I despise the concept of dogma and organised religion itself. The only reason I posted here in the first place is because I'm tired of everyone's supposed righteousness. Those nuns weren't there to help anyone, they were just trying to get people to join their club. I see this thing time and time again and it just sickens me.

I see no punchline. In fact, I find the Commandments an ideal set laws by which to live. Christ's basic teachings are a wonderful amendment to these standards. However, just like the Eightfold Path, no one can ever really "start off" enlightened, so they go through a painful process of learning. Which, I'm sure, is what you REALLY meant by your next comment.

You need no punchline to have a joke, but that's beside the point. Really, I'm just supised that there are still forward-thinking Christians in this day in age who would follow the Commandments to the letter. I mean, there are several times when God himself orders people to violate his commandments (Numbers 31:7 for example), and these days every church in the world has crosses or crucifixes or some kind of symbols in and/or on it. (direct violation of Commandment Two). Not to mention the fact that many worship Jese as a seperate entity and do so more than they worship God (violation of Commandment One).

I agree with you that Jesus's teachings are very important to Christianity. Actualy, if I were a Christian, I'd probably ignore the Old Testament and just go with what he said. It makes more sense that way.

Shit comes in all hues.
Maybe I can give you benefit of doubt by submitting that you may not ever have met the same type of Christian as I'm used to (a shining example being my late Great Aunt Isabel). I know some Catholic assholes... but I also know Atheist assholes, Jewish assoles, Islam assholes, Satanist assholes and Rastafarian assholes. Christians get way too much exposure as the Wacked-Out Crusader type-- and when everyone chimes in with their tired generalizing bullshit, it only aggravates the situation and each side of the debate apes each other's sorry attitude.

Well yeah, I've known asshole atheists, christians, satanists and wiccans, as have I known very nice examples of each as well. Choice of religion does not dictate character. But what you seem to be saying here is that you assume I'm saying that people are being bad Christians just because they violate the 10 Commandments. I don't think so. In fact, I have a friend who is a Mormon and she's possibly the nicest, most "pure" person I know. She refuses to watch violent films, never curses, refrains from taking any drug including caffeine, and by D&D rules she's be lawful good (my friend even got her a shirt that said that :D). But wait!

You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. (Gen 20:4)

She is a bit of an artist and her favorite thing to do is make dolls. Obviously, that means she is breaking the second commandment by making something in the likeness of something, often of something [/i]in the earth beneath[/i], though sometimes of the other two. Now does this make her a bad Christian/Mormon in my eyes? No. Obviously, she realises the important parts of her religion and makes sure she goes along with those and doesn't tie herself up with the specific wording that is likely due to bad translation in the first place. I admire anyone who can stick to their ethics, weather they are their own or those created by someone else.

And as for the Bible: maybe the first time you read the Bible, you're looking for a hero. I blame that on reading too many comic books. That's not what it should be used for, sorry.

Actualy, when I read the Bible I was looking at it from a scholarly approach to see just what it was all about anyway (Theology is one of my many interests). Forsooth, The Bible is the only holy book of any of the major world religions that I have read, so if it seems like I disproportionately "attack" it more often than say Islam, it's partialy due to the fact that I know more about it than others (and partialy due to the fact that I live in a nation where Christianity is the major religion and thus I'm inundated with it :P).

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Not all Christians are lunatics.

Though I am an atheist, I am a baptized, confirmed, and to this day registered member of the Protestant Church of Sweden. Why? I would not have joined it today, but I don't see any major reason to quit either. The Church does huge amounts of humanitarian work, and likely has a positive net effect on society.

Most priests do not consider the Bible a historical reference or absolute moral law (the archbishop himself thinks the Bible should be read "with a sense of humor"). There is even, notably, widespread support for allowing homosexual marriage.

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Well that's kinda shitty. Ditch the Hindu, or starve to death. That's very unChristian like. Aren't they supposed to help people regardless of their beliefs? Or do they only cater to Christians? I was born into Roman Catholicism, not that I really bought into it. But there was this Jesus freak at my former workplace whose nickname was Saint Peter. He'd talk about Jesus and tell you if your going to hell or not.

This old asian fellow who spoke incredibly fluent english. He told me he used to be street fighter and did all this bad shit, and at the age of 30 he became a born again Christian. Babbling on about Jesus, Jesus this, Jesus that, Worship Jesus, yadda yadda. He asked me what I believed in, so I just said Roman Catholicism, even though I really don't go to church and all that. He told me I'm going to hell because I have to be Christian and believe in Jesus.

If there were a black church in my neighbourhood, I'd go for the music :-)

Bottomline: Not all religous people are good, but not all of them are necessarily bad.

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I just checked the Skeptic's Annotated Bible, it is the 10 commandments, sorry about that... **

The point I'm trying to make is basically that last part I said about "castrating them with a dull spoon."

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This is why I don't like organized religion.

The behavior of those missionaries is sickening. This is a prime example of corruption in modern religion. Trying to force people to convert so these missionaries could get a 'good record' and more status.

Every religion is corrupt. EVERY ONE. Don't go telling me otherwise. It would be like a coin with only one side. It cannot exist. No such thing as a perfect religion. Atheism doen't count, since that's a lack of religion, and being Agnostic doesn't either.

[ignore this]
I believe in God. I believe he wants us to be happy, through making others happy. We're supposed to live full lives and grow strong as a people, and grow into something God can be proud of. We've got a long way to go >_<

The bible is a fucked up mishmash I think, for 2 reasons:

1. Even if it IS the word of God, it was still written by a man.
2. God wants us to make our own choices, and try to pick out what is best from the crap in that book of his. I feel this is a test in itself.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not an overly religious fellow. I belong to no organized religion whatsoever, and I'm FINE with that. I don't fear God's wrath, since I've done nothing to att*LIGHTNING BOLTED*
[/ignore this]

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*coughs smoke*

I'm getting better

*falls over*

I'll reiterate on my last post. When I said that every religion is corrupt, I do not mean FULLY corrupt. I mean, there are people who are genuinely good and decent humans working for the church who are actually out there to help people. But there are also people out there who try to bend their religious position for their own ends. Every religion has a few people like this, thusly, corruption exists.

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Since when did blackmailing helpless people into converting to another faith have anything to do with the Christian faith? Those nuns better shape up or they can just ship *out*! (..they seem to forget what the Ten Commandments are all about....)

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Fuck the bible's comandments, anyone who believes that stupid book and follow mine:

"Fuck thy bible and thou can whipe thine ass with thy bible's pages afterwhich ye may continue to worship ye ole two-thousand-year old carpenter."

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Plato said:

Since when did blackmailing helpless people into converting to another faith have anything to do with the Christian faith? Those nuns better shape up or they can just ship *out*! (..they seem to forget what the Ten Commandments are all about....)

*sigh*

For the last time, there is nothing in the 10 Commandments that said they did anything wrong. They just violated several of Jesus's teachings, perpetrated a couple of the 7 sins, and went far beyond common decency is all. :/

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