I get a very strange blurry texture at my big map!

[waverider]

I have a wad that somehow got as big as 1.7 mb when it was planned to be much smaller. Anyways, it's fine as it is now, but for some very very strange reason, if I create maybe one or two more sectors, at any place in the level, I get a big, blurry texture that looks like a linedef without a texture. Problem is this is all over the place, from floor to ceiling. And it appears to go through walls as well! I've used Doom Builder and Wad Author for this one, most editing has been done in Doom Builder. I've used WA most for bug fixing (check map feature). Anyways, I wonder if I've struck some kind of editing limit, but that don't seem to be the case either, I have one 1.8 mb map :P ,that doesn't have this problem. And I've seen maps that are bigger than 2 mb, should this work or is there a known problem with maps this big?

I should also note that this bug texture appears only in a particular room, but it always appears there no matter where in the level I create more sectors. Maybe I shouldn't complain as maps sure don't *have* to be this big, but I'm working on a megawad and I've planned for at least 2 or 3 maps in total that are going to be really big.
Anyways, it seems that the more sectors I draw in the level, the more to the left, (in the room in question), the buggy texture appears.
This bug appears no matter if I edit in Wad Author or in Doom Builder, and it doesn't even matter if I remove the room in where the buggy texture appears, and try to rewrite the room. The blurry texture appears anyways!

Now I'd REALLY appriciate help on this, if there's any to give. I know my map is big, it's almost done, but there's some more sectors I've been wanting to make. Any clues?

A final note: I did start to make this level in an old editor called Waded, 1.83. Could that program have caused it? It shouldn't because I have also rebuilt the nodes in both Wad Author and Doom Builder a dozen times, with no avail.

Please help!

[Dutch Doomer]

Can you show some screenshots of your wad,i find it kinda hard to understand what the exact problem is.
It can't be a problem on file size to me,im building a wad for zdoom at the moment and that one is well over 6mb in size.

Maybe its the so called "Hall of mirrors effect" but im not sure,about this one though.
Is this wad going to be created for a sourceport or just for the original doom,because the old doom has an linedef limit.
The modern ports of today eliminates those nasty linedef limits.
I think the most linedefs doom can show at once is about 16,if im not mistaken.
If you get over that amount,you will get to see that "hall of crap effect" which i always hated when i made wads for doom95 :(

[waverider]

Thanks for your reply. Sure I can show a screenshot but since I can't post attachments here, can I send it to you? It's possibly a "hall of mirrors" bug, but isn't BSP supposed to remove those? The best I can explain the bug is that it looks the same as a two-sided linedef without a texture. And that would be the hall of mirrors effect. It goes from top to bottom like if there was a missing main texture. Like I wrote before it doesn't matter in the level I create any more sectors, any added sector will cause this blurry line at this one particular room. The hall of mirrors line will show if standing on the right side, looking left (in the room), but it's not there if standing on the left looking right, so to speak. I even copied the entire map in Wad Author, and moved the level to another coordinates, but yet, the bug appears. It would be logical to rebuild the room, or build new sectors elsewhere, and expect the bug to stay away, but no.

I've had hall of mirrors effects in my levels before, but that was years ago, before BSP came into the picture :P

By the way, it's only one level that is 1.7 mb in itself, not the megawad in total. Just wanted to point that out. So you've made a single map that's 6 mb in size without any problems?

Tell me how to show you screenshots and I'll send them/put them up.

PS: I use the newest ZDoomGL as my port when testing this map.

[Dutch Doomer]

waverider said:

So you've made a single map that's 6 mb in size without any problems?

None what so ever,it runs like a dream.

[Dutch Doomer]

waverider said:

Tell me how to show you screenshots and I'll send them/put them up.

Upload them to http://www.imageshack.us/ and copy and paste one of the links to your new reply message.
Give it a try it doesn't matter if you fail the first time.

[waverider]

Uploaded one file now, can upload more if you need them. As you can see in the picture, the bug goes through the wall in the torch room to the room the player stands in. the hall of mirrors effect that shows the SP_ROCK texture is normally a fully functional door, walk through it and the door looks fine from the other side. Likewise, you can stand in the left side in the torch room (as viewed in the picture). Stay in the left side, look to the right, and you see no hall of mirrors effect. Stand in the right side like the picture shows, and the hall of mirrors appear.

The picture link:

http://img206.exs.cx/img206/7176/bug18hx.gif

[CodeImp]

1: When will people learn to use gamma correction? Dont you even notice your picture is nearly black?

2: This is definitely the "Hall of Mirrors" problem. Nodebuilders dont fix this, its just that you are missing a texture on these walls. Put a texture on the wall and the problem goes away. If there is a texture on it already, it may be that the texture you put on that wall doesnt exist (original Doom would crash in that case, but that can be different in the engine you are using).

[waverider]

CodeImp said:

1: When will people learn to use gamma correction? Dont you even notice your picture is nearly black?

Ok, sorry about that. I could've made it a big brighter.

2: This is definitely the "Hall of Mirrors" problem. Nodebuilders dont fix this, its just that you are missing a texture on these walls. Put a texture on the wall and the problem goes away. If there is a texture on it already, it may be that the texture you put on that wall doesnt exist (original Doom would crash in that case, but that can be different in the engine you are using).

No, there's no missing linedef texture or a texture that aren't in the Doom2.Wad. Wad Author shows "No errors detected". I've doublechecked in Doom Builder also.

Actually I know now that the problem does not show up in PRBoom or GLBoom or even normal ZDoom, the hall of mirrors only show in ZDoomGL. Could it be a bug in the GL Nodes-builder inside ZDoomGL?

[Eragon]

ZDoomGL is still a in development(based off of ZDoom, obviously), and you may be using a linedef type it doesn't support, ie, Mirrors, Horizones, etc. Otherwise, It's probaly an incorrect GL node. What nodesbuilder are you using?

[netnomad312]

GL Nodes? Heh... that's why I never bother with GL, because building GL nodes adds onto the wad usually. He's probably using WadAuthor's node builder. Yeah, yeah, [instertbooatwadauthornodebuilderhere], but I just don't use a GL port.

[Dutch Doomer]

I have one thing to say stick to Zdoom instead of ZdoomGL:)

[waverider]

Eragon said:

ZDoomGL is still a in development(based off of ZDoom, obviously), and you may be using a linedef type it doesn't support, ie, Mirrors, Horizones, etc. Otherwise, It's probaly an incorrect GL node. What nodesbuilder are you using?

Possibly so. The bug stretches out over a straight line, no matter if it crosses an actual linedef or not, it just goes, like up and down on the Y coordinates, and through walls. But only in ZDoomGL from what I've seen so far.

I've used the nodesbuilder inside Doom Builder, but no GL Nodes Builder. Not sure if GLBoom has a built-in GL nodesbuilder, but the bug doesn't show up in there for some reason.

[waverider]

netnomad312 said:

GL Nodes? Heh... that's why I never bother with GL, because building GL nodes adds onto the wad usually. He's probably using WadAuthor's node builder. Yeah, yeah, [instertbooatwadauthornodebuilderhere], but I just don't use a GL port.

Yeah I don't know. But I was thinking it might be a bug because GLBoom handles the map fine. If it is a bug I'm sure it'll be fixed soon. :)

I guess it could also be my map but I don't see how because there doesn't seem to an error anywhere, I've checked carefully, and built nodes with both Wad Author and Doom Builder (always finishing with a DB nodesbuild), BSP is so much better than the built-in WA nodesbuilder.

[waverider]

dutch devill said:

I have one thing to say stick to Zdoom instead of ZdoomGL:)

But OpenGL is so beautiful :)

[Dutch Doomer]

waverider said:

But OpenGL is so beautiful :)

Its not that beautiful to me,just give me Zdoom without that GL part,and i am a very happy doomer :)

[Infinite Ammunition]

waverider said:

But OpenGL is so beautiful :)

I'm gonna kill your family :)

[Eragon]

netnomad312 said:

GL Nodes? Heh... that's why I never bother with GL, because building GL nodes adds onto the wad usually. He's probably using WadAuthor's node builder. Yeah, yeah, [instertbooatwadauthornodebuilderhere], but I just don't use a GL port.

True, it adds a good 50kb or something. That's why I just use the ZDoom BSP, becuase randy made it so the nodes are gl compatible without taking to much space, AFAIK. Oh, and waverider, doombuilder has a bunch of options, but ZBSP is probaly the best one to use. I'm not sure which version is packaged with doom builder, so you might wanna go to the zdoom site and get the latest version. :D

Infinite Ammunition said:
----------------------
waverider said:



But OpenGL is so beautiful :)
----------------------


I'm gonna kill your family :)

rofl

[waverider]

Eragon said:

True, it adds a good 50kb or something. That's why I just use the ZDoom BSP, becuase randy made it so the nodes are gl compatible without taking to much space, AFAIK. Oh, and waverider, doombuilder has a bunch of options, but ZBSP is probaly the best one to use. I'm not sure which version is packaged with doom builder, so you might wanna go to the zdoom site and get the latest version. :D

Ok. A few questions though. If I use ZBSP to nodebuild the map, will the level work in other ports such as GLBoom? I may be hideously boring ;) but I want my megawad to work in all, limit-removing ports at least. There's nothing like that old-school Doom feeling :P Well mostly, anyways.

Also, if I nodebuild with ZBSP, will that stop ZDoomGL from doing that automated build when I load it with my level?

[waverider]

Infinite Ammunition said:

I'm gonna kill your family :)

:P

[waverider]

dutch devill said:

Its not that beautiful to me,just give me Zdoom without that GL part,and i am a very happy doomer :)

Yeah, it's not like OpenGL/Direct3D is an absolute must, it sure is fun anyways, but it's a very nice addition ;)

[waverider]

I just tried to build the nodes with ZBSP, but it didn't work. Why is that? I haven't seem any bugs in the map, is this because ZBSP only works in ZDoom-only maps? Or what am I doing wrong?

[Stealthy Ivan]

Use DeepSea! Nuff said...

[CodeImp]

Doom Builder comes with the 3 most popular nodebuilders; ZenNode, ZDBSP and BSP. All 3 nodebuilders create the classic nodes that work with every Doom source port and original Doom. However, they are not perfect and can sometimes fail building the nodes, even with a correct map that uses no hacks. In that case, just try another.

I think, but im not sure, that ZenNode has the most optimalisation parameters. For the parameters of each nodebuilder, see the manual for the nodebuilder. The Doom Builder manual has some information on these parameters as well. For the "Quick Nodebuild", you can use the pre-configured profiles (box at the right-top in Nodebuilder tab of the configuration dialog). You should use settings that optimize the routine for fast building (these settings are used each time you test your map). For "Export Nodebuild" you want to use optimization for the best nodes (these settings are used when using Export Map from the File menu).

[waverider]

CodeImp said:

Doom Builder comes with the 3 most popular nodebuilders; ZenNode, ZDBSP and BSP. All 3 nodebuilders create the classic nodes that work with every Doom source port and original Doom. However, they are not perfect and can sometimes fail building the nodes, even with a correct map that uses no hacks. In that case, just try another.

I also tried Zennode and that worked fine. The file size was then cut down from 1770 kb to 1710 kb. However ZDoomGL still displayed the hall-of-mirrors effect. Still no mirrors in normal ZDoom or in GLBoom. Could it be that the built-in node builder in ZDoomGL is at fault?

I think, but im not sure, that ZenNode has the most optimalisation parameters. For the parameters of each nodebuilder, see the manual for the nodebuilder. The Doom Builder manual has some information on these parameters as well. For the "Quick Nodebuild", you can use the pre-configured profiles (box at the right-top in Nodebuilder tab of the configuration dialog). You should use settings that optimize the routine for fast building (these settings are used each time you test your map). For "Export Nodebuild" you want to use optimization for the best nodes (these settings are used when using Export Map from the File menu). [/B]

So Zennode could be the best node builder? At least at optimizing?

Would I need to set up special parameters inside Doom Builder, to use ZDBSP or would it work anyways?

But what could honestly cause the hall of mirrors in my map? Could it be ZDoomGL's node builder? Or what else could cause it? Because I've really checked carefully in my map, and I can't find any bugs.

[CodeImp]

If your map looks fine in ZDoom as well as in the original Doom, but has problems in ZDoomGL, I'd say the problem lies with ZDoomGL.

Im not saying ZenNode is the best, I said it has the most options for optimisations. About the parameters again: Use my pre-configured ones from that dropdown box, or, if you are familiar with a nodebuilder's parameters (you can find them in its manual), enter the parameters manually.

[Eragon]

Well, if none of the node builders work including ZDoomGLs, and your map works in other ports perfectly, then it's probaly ZDoomGL's fault, like CodeImp said. And, like I said earlier, I wouldn't try to make it work in GL if it doesnt; ZDoomGL is still in development.

[Darkhaven]

Also while we're on the subject of nodebuilders, keep in mind the Map format you're making it in plays a determining factor in what builder you should use. Case in point, if you're making a map in ZDooM-Hexen format, and BSP won't compile it, it's a safe bet you should try ZDBSP.