KDIZD cancelled because of copyright issues?

Good news! We have recieved word from Todd Hollenshead in regards to our queries, which you can view here. He basically confirms that modifying resources is acceptable, but asks that Doom 2-only resources not be used in Doom 1 wads, and visa versa. This means that project will now be for Doom 1 rather than Doom 2, and we will have to remove/replace a few D2 textures & sprites.

Also, if any of you have recieved offensive e-mails from the address "bungleistmassive@gmail.com", I apologize now, and ask that you read this thread.

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kristus said:

Well, what can I say but congratulations.

Well, at least this is an fair comment! Thx, and now let's get back to work! :)

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Finish it damnit! ;-)

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NiGHTMARE said:

He basically confirms that modifying resources is acceptable, but asks that Doom 2-only resources not be used in Doom 1 wads, and visa versa. This means that project will now be for Doom 1 rather than Doom 2, and we will have to remove/replace a few D2 textures & sprites.


Why bother going to that effort? As has been exemplified numerous times in the past (with all the wads in the archives that have mixed texture/music resources taken from one of the Doom's and used in the 'wrong' game), ID aren't likely to actually go ahead and enforce these rules. I would have thought the bigger problem lies with the modified levels, and Ty's enforcement (or waivering) of the 'No modified maps' rule. Which as I understand it, is not only to do with the EULA, but also so the archives don't get full of crap. And no, that's not a cheap pop ay KDiZD. My first attempts at Doom mapping were adding a hundred Cyberdemons to E1M1, I doubt anybody wants to see that sort of stuff in the archives.

Anyway, at least it now looks like your efforts weren't all for noting. But with this new emphasis on staying within the rules of the EULA, I guess in the future we can expect Tormentor to check with ID about using the Quake resources in TNT :oP

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The "no modifying levels" rule isn't anything to do with the EULA, since it clearly states that modifying maps is permitted :).

Anyway, since it's now clear ID won't have a problem with KDIZD (as long as we make the stated changes), I don't see why Ty should reject it. I strongly suspect that rule is more to do with the scenario in your example (i.e. people just plonking a few extra random monsters in an original level and then uploading it) than legality.

Besides even if Ty does decide to reject the wad, there are other places we can upload it besides 3darchives ;).

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Well if you need a host or a download mirror I'd be quite happy to put it on my site.

edit: assuming of course that the file isn't megagigs large ;)

edit again: what am I saying! you've already got a ZDiZD site, you don't need a host /me slaps forehead. But the offers still open if you need a mirror.

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Russell_P said:

edit: assuming of course that the file isn't megagigs large ;)



The current size of resources plus levels is 14 MB zipped - and it will most likely become even larger!

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The Flange Peddler said:

Anyway, at least it now looks like your efforts weren't all for noting. But with this new emphasis on staying within the rules of the EULA, I guess in the future we can expect Tormentor to check with ID about using the Quake resources in TNT :oP



I doubt much will change. ;)
This project is different because it modifies the existing levels and it had to be made sure it is 100% legal.
For everything else it will most likely stay the same: Everybody is using resources from different games and nobody will complain - unless someone tries to recreate an entire game for a different engine.

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Graf Zahl said:

[...] unless someone tries to recreate an entire game for a different engine.


Hmm... lets recreate Ultima Underworld or System Shock 1 in Doom... *laing bait for electronic a**** lawyers*

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Russell_P said:

Well if you need a host or a download mirror I'd be quite happy to put it on my site.

We'll keep that in mind. Thanks friend ;)

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Russell_P said:

edit again: what am I saying! you've already got a ZDiZD site, you don't need a host /me slaps forehead. But the offers still open if you need a mirror.

Well, yeah, thank you for the offer, we might need it! ;)

@Everyone else, just to make sure that you get an official statement and status report on KDiZD:

- Not Cancelled
- Still under heavy developement
- Gets some changes that won't change anything special for you (it just can get better)
- It will be 100% legal, even id says that ;)
- The date of release is now set to something between end of March and beginning of April
- No more screenshots, work preview or trailers will be released, the final result will be a huge surprise for everyone of you!


Anything else you need to know?

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Tormentor667 said:

Anything else you need to know?


In my most humble opinion, say as little about KDiZD as possible now. Just get it done and surprize us.

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Well, It's good to hear this incident has ended in a sane fashion.

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I am very happy to know that everything is OK, "KDiZD" is legal and that the team is working heavily on it. =) I am anxiously waiting for its release. :) Expect my comments on your previous screenshots soon. ;)

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In the last days, I've played and reviewed "Titan" (check it out on my site: http://utenti.lycos.it/ismaele85/)... I also played a lot of other .WADs, set in invaded UAC bases... and I think that adding some hellish touch, such as "flesh textures" and such, to the levels of "KDiZD" would suit perfectly the situation. :) After all, when you play E1, it doesn't seem that you are wandering in a base invaded by the hellish army, apart from monsters and corpses...! ;) I think that this kind of detail would make levels much more intense and could also fill empty spaces. ;) Do you agree with me?!

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NiGHTMARE said:
good news


I'm glad iD didn't ask for it to be cancelled or that it needed to be signifigantly changed.

Funnily enough, this recent event got me more excited about KDiZD than any of the news released in the past few months. :O

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Darkman 4 said:

I'm glad iD didn't ask for it to be cancelled or that it needed to be signifigantly changed.



They can't. Doom's license specifically allows the modification of maps!

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I had a look at the screenshots of the levels of your "KDiZD" .WAD and I thought to write you some suggestions; so here they are:...

I looked at screenshot NM3.png, available on Daniel Tormentor's site, and I noticed a misaligned lower texture (BROWNGRN), under the window on the left.

In the screenshot NM5.png, available on Tormentor's site, I noticed that some things can be improved to give much more realism. For instance, the fading effect could be applied to the lights from ceiling and fading light could be added near the windows; the windows are a little too long and I think that some little bars could help to support those long windows. I also noticed that the lower textures (GRAY7... if I am not wrong) near the acid pool are not aligned!

I think that every light that comes from every source should be faded, in order to give a more realistic touch. For instance, the screenshot NM7.png is very good because of the nice fading lights! :) On the contrary, in the screenshot NM9.png, the lights coming from the central light-source could be faded.

In the screenshot NM8.png, the BROWN96 textures could be aligned better.

I hope to have made myself useful. ;)

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I think You should join our team if You have so much constructive criticism.

Go to Zdoom.org forums, register and we'll add You to the secret development team so the development forum (also secret :) ) will also be available for You. Cheers.

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Thanks, Ismaele! The NM3 misalignments (there are actually a couple of others in the screenshot which you didn't notice/mention ;)) and NM5 window were taken care of a while back, but the other stuff should prove to be most useful :).

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14 megs zipped and still rising? Dammit, this will take a while to download.
/me pities his 56k
Also, I suppose it's the E1 purist in me but in my humble opinion I disagree with the putting of hellish textures in an E1 map. If you're going to put Hellish textures in an E1 map it might as well be for E2. Once again, IMHO.

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I think the most promising thing to come out of this is the official word that modifying doom graphics is OK, as long as it stays in the doom(2) engine.

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But that's no revelation to anyone who checked the latest DOOM EULA, which states that clearly. It is clear that Hollenshead read it or had it in mind (or whatever internal document id has in regard to DOOM licensing, on which the EULA would be based,) when answering.

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Doom's EULA does *not* clearly state that modifying graphics is acceptable, that's why the entire problem arose in the first place. No specific mention is made of any resource other than maps.

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You mean that arqueological piece issued by id and GT Interactive? I mean the later one issued by id and Activision:

2. Permitted New Creations. Subject to the terms and provisions of this Agreement and so long as you fully comply at all times with this Agreement, ID grants to you the non-exclusive and limited right to create for the Software (except any Software code) your own modifications (the "New Creations") which shall operate only with the Software (but not any demo, test or other version of the Software). ID reserves all rights not granted in this Agreement, including, without limitation, all rights to ID's trademarks. You may include within the New Creations certain textures and other images (the "ID Images") from the Software.

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Is that from Quake or something? If so, it doesn't apply to Doom - laws are not retroactive.

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