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zombiecommando

Hollensheads gamspot interview Dooms not done

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Maybe if Doom3 had been this incredible experience this would be a good idea, but err, it was just an ok game. Seriously, they need to try new things, and by that I don't mean Doom3 with a different name and different monsters.

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He never said ID would be the one to make these potential future Doom games. Just look at Return to Castle Wolfenstein and Quake 4.

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That's can't be a completely good thing.

Yes, look at Quake IV and RtCW. RtCW is about as un-Wolfenstein and un-id as I'd ever want something to be under an id brand. Yes, it's a good game, and sometimes the atmosphere is OK, but it's simply not very Wolfenstein-universe-esque.

From what I've seen of Quake IV in-game (granted, only a few shots) it seems be more un-Quakish than any Quake-brand game should ever be.

Other developers can make great games with id's brand names, but that doesn't mean they belong in the series, especially if in style they just totally drop everything that we've known about id for so long. Another example: the multiplayer maps in DOOM 3.

Man, they should not have let a bunch of amatures like Splash Damage do DOOM 3's mp maps. Occasionally, they fit within the DOOM 3 universe, and sort of translate the game's sp-style play in mp, but let's be honest. Most of those maps deserve to be highly-rated fan-made maps showing up at PlanetDoom, NOT _the_ DOOM 3 mp maps. They're just not right. If they'd just let Tim Willits come up with one duel map, it'd be twice as good as anything anyone (including Swelt and Slash Damage) has done for the game yet.

Instead, though, a company I trust even less than Splash Damage (Nerve) is coming in to do even more mp maps. I hope they learned from fan-feedback that we don't want more boxed-in, junk maps in mp. We'll see. They've never worked on a deathmatch game before, so ugh, we'll just have to see.

I don't mind ThreeWave doing CTF in DOOM 3, as I believe they'll do the series and the gameplay justice. I've been with ThreeWave for almost ten years now, and they just do not dissapoint, ever.

But yeah, the point of me writing all of this is that I really, really wish id would stop throwing out their pearls to the swine (pretty much any other company).

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Mogul said:

If they'd just let Tim Willits come up with one duel map, it'd be twice as good as anything anyone (including Swelt and Slash Damage) has done for the game yet.


You are talking as if Willits and other id Software mappers would create the best MP maps in the world. This is simply not true, just take a look at Quake 3 Arena: out of 20 deathmatch maps there is only 1 map that is really outstanding, q3dm6. And loads of forgetable maps with flat and symmetric layouts.

I haven´t yet played Doom3 deathmtach becuase I am maily interested into the SP of the game, but from looking at the Doom3 DM maps I would say they are decent.

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zombiecommando said:

at the end of the video interview which he talks about ROE he states that there will be more games in the franchise


Having just read the recent Matt Hooper interview I'd be inclined to say Todd was talking about ROE, Since it had a parallel development for a while.

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Well, yeah.

I believe that if Willits were assigned to create a duel map for DOOM 3, it'd be better than any other DOOM 3 map yet. Historically, his 1v1 maps are pretty much the best, going all the way back to dm6 for Quake.

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I can point out a few things that are wrong with the Doom 3 DM Maps:

- Most of them are just chopped up versions of SP maps
- They are too large. Unless all four players are playing at once, you find yourself running around aimlessly for minutes just to find a target.
- They are too dark. Dark doesn't work very well in Deathmatch. That leaves too many areas where idiots can sit there and hide in a shadow until someone walks by.

EDIT:

just take a look at Quake 3 Arena

I dunno. The maps in Quake 3 are probably the only thing I like about that game. Except for those retarded space maps.

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AgentSpork said:

- They are too large. Unless all four players are playing at once, you find yourself running around aimlessly for minutes just to find a target.
- They are too dark. Dark doesn't work very well in Deathmatch. That leaves too many areas where idiots can sit there and hide in a shadow until someone walks by.


I can see your points. I was looking at aspects like vertical combat and connectivity and they really aren´t bad from that point of view, but I agree most of them are a bit too large for duel.
The darkness... they tried to give deathmatch a new twist by incorporating stealthy darkness elements into it. Would maybe work better with a more tactical gamemode.


I dunno. The maps in Quake 3 are probably the only thing I like about that game. Except for those retarded space maps.


Quake3 is an excellent deathmatch game, has a great weapon balance and a unique artistic style in the designs. It just doesn´t have many good stock maps from a gameplay point of view, but today there are tons of superior custom maps out that really make the Q3 gameplay shine.

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Mogul said:

That's can't be a completely good thing.

Yes, look at Quake IV and RtCW. RtCW is about as un-Wolfenstein and un-id as I'd ever want something to be under an id brand. Yes, it's a good game, and sometimes the atmosphere is OK, but it's simply not very Wolfenstein-universe-esque.

From what I've seen of Quake IV in-game (granted, only a few shots) it seems be more un-Quakish than any Quake-brand game should ever be.

Other developers can make great games with id's brand names, but that doesn't mean they belong in the series, especially if in style they just totally drop everything that we've known about id for so long. Another example: the multiplayer maps in DOOM 3.

Man, they should not have let a bunch of amatures like Splash Damage do DOOM 3's mp maps. Occasionally, they fit within the DOOM 3 universe, and sort of translate the game's sp-style play in mp, but let's be honest. Most of those maps deserve to be highly-rated fan-made maps showing up at PlanetDoom, NOT _the_ DOOM 3 mp maps. They're just not right. If they'd just let Tim Willits come up with one duel map, it'd be twice as good as anything anyone (including Swelt and Slash Damage) has done for the game yet.

Instead, though, a company I trust even less than Splash Damage (Nerve) is coming in to do even more mp maps. I hope they learned from fan-feedback that we don't want more boxed-in, junk maps in mp. We'll see. They've never worked on a deathmatch game before, so ugh, we'll just have to see.

I don't mind ThreeWave doing CTF in DOOM 3, as I believe they'll do the series and the gameplay justice. I've been with ThreeWave for almost ten years now, and they just do not dissapoint, ever.

But yeah, the point of me writing all of this is that I really, really wish id would stop throwing out their pearls to the swine (pretty much any other company).

I agree with everything You just said, I applaud this post!

And i Love Quake 3 , still play it and its mission pack to this day - one of ids best games

Tetzlaff said:

You are talking as if Willits and other id Software mappers would create the best MP maps in the world. This is simply not true, just take a look at Quake 3 Arena: out of 20 deathmatch maps there is only 1 map that is really outstanding, q3dm6. And loads of forgetable maps with flat and symmetric layouts.

are you insane? q3Dm6 is BY FAR the *worst* map in Q3... every single other map (CTF and DM) is utterly fantastic.
"the Longest Yard" FORGETTABLE?
"Grim Dungeons" Symetric? WTF

That said dm6 is better than anything in doom3s multiplayer

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Mogul said:

From what I've seen of Quake IV in-game (granted, only a few shots) it seems be more un-Quakish than any Quake-brand game should ever be.

How can you say that when each of the previous Quake game looks completely different than the other two? Q4 looks far more similar to Q2 than either of the others.

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Mogul said:

RtCW is about as un-Wolfenstein and un-id as I'd ever want something to be under an id brand. Yes, it's a good game, and sometimes the atmosphere is OK, but it's simply not very Wolfenstein-universe-esque.


I disagree, i find RTCW's multiplayer the best in the buisness, sure the SP kind of sucks, but the multiplayer more than makes up for it.

And Quake 3 is a great Deathmatch game, but that's about it. I mean the guns and atmosphere are fine, but CTF and all that just aren't Quake 3 i feel.

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Wobbo said:

are you insane? q3Dm6 is BY FAR the *worst* map in Q3... every single other map (CTF and DM) is utterly fantastic.
"the Longest Yard" FORGETTABLE?
"Grim Dungeons" Symetric? WTF


The stock Q3 CTF maps are actually very weak. If you download the Threewave map packs you don´t want to come back to them anymore (unless you are a die hard q3ctf4 fanatic, but that´s more rail training then CTF).

Grim Dungeons isn´t symmetric but spoilded by bad weapon placement, just like q3dm12. The layout of q3dm12 is actually quite good, but the BFG chamber sucks so bad.
Another map I personally find great in athmosphere and layout is q3dm13, Lost World. But it isn´t very popular among tourney players also. I´m just trying to be fair and critical enough...

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Denny said:

I disagree, i find RTCW's multiplayer the best in the buisness, sure the SP kind of sucks, but the multiplayer more than makes up for it.

Are you blind or something? You completely missed what he was actually saying.

He was not saying that RtCW was bad, he was saying that it was 'un-wolfenstein'ish', meaning that it didn't feel like Wolfenstein 3d at all and I kinda agree. It's a cool game, but it lacks too many crucial Wolf3d elements to really feel like Wolfenstein 3d - that aside, it's too complex and too gimmic-riddled for a true Wolfenstein 3d fan like me (and those damn stealth missions piss me off - Wolfenstein is about blasting everything in sight, not avoiding detection!).

I'm not pleased about the prospect of having other companies do a Doom game for Id - that means we're gonna get a Doom game with a gazillion different machineguns, too much wow-factor (and not enough proper, well-polished gameplay), too many bugs and likely an over-complex interface and not enough emphasis on weapon balancing.

I'd prefer those "future Doom games" to just be Doom 3 expansion packs or something with Doom 3 being as unspoiled and pure as it is - trouble is, they can't keep pumping out expansion packs forever :-(

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