Terri Schiavo :(

[Zodiak]

Hey guys. I'm sure you all have herd of Terri by now. I've been felling pretty depresed now.. They still havnt put the tubes in yet... Imagine going 6 days without food or water, and can't do anything about it. I feel so bad for her...

Edit by Grazza: I've fixed the spelling of her name in the thread title.

[Xenophon]

Zodiak said:

Hey guys. I'm sure you all have herd of Terry by now.

nope, enlighten me

[Cyb]

Schiavo. And she can't do anything about anything. She can't think, see, talk, hear, feel pain, she's not aware of anything. That's no way to 'live'.

[Zodiak]

A nobel prize doctor said they could bring her back. And yes she can hear, talk, and feel pain. Shes not dead...yet.

[Sharessa]

If I were her, I'd want to die.

[Zodiak]

They took out her feeding tubes for no F***ing reason, her skumbag husband wants her to die...

[Ralphis]

My problem is that she can actually drink water, and they're refusing to give her water. It's not part of the feeding tube, give her some fucking water since she CAN swallow it.

But yea I'd like to see the tube back in

[Quast]

Zodiak said:

Imagine going 6 days without food or water, and can't do anything about it. I feel so bad for her...

Imagine being kept alive for 15 years beyond your time and not being able to do anything about it. Either way, she isn't even aware of anything...so...

And her prospects for anything resembling a "life" aren't too thrilling if she was kept alive.

[Zodiak]

Really. AT LEAST LET HER DRINK, then put the feeding tube back in.

[Zodiak]

But starving to death? That's torture. Have you ever gone a day without eating? You know how your stomach really starts to hurt? Imagine that for 6 days and having no control over it. If they want to kill her, at least do a lethal injection.

[Quast]

I agree with the lethal injection. But that isn't going to happen. But fuck, imagine the fundie uproar if that did (if it could?) happen. I'd laugh my ass off.

[Sharessa]

Oh piss and moan. Life is full of hurt. Suck it up.

[Cyb]

Zodiak said:

A nobel prize doctor said they could bring her back. And yes she can hear, talk, and feel pain. Shes not dead...yet.

You are highly misinformed on this issue. She has been in this state for 15 years, and in the last 8 of them she has been pretty much just a lump of meat that lays there and breathes. Everything she does is purely reflexive, including sleep and wake cycles, digestion, breathing, heart beating and so on. I don't believe she can swallow since a feeding tube normally extends all the way down your throat and into your stomach.

Her entire cerebral cortex has been replaced with spinal fluid due to lack of oxygen to her brain during a heart attack she had 15 years ago. The cerebral cortex, if you're not familiar, is what makes people human. It has all your thoughts, memories, and controls many other functions such as sight, hearing, taste, touch, basic motor skills, pain center and a lot more. If you lack that part of your brain you are pretty much dead, though with a brain stem you can still breathe but not much else.

Neural tissue cannot be repaired or regrown, this is scientific fact. Even if there was some amazing breakthrough with stem cell research or something and we were able to grow her a new brain, she would not be the same person because there is no way to repair any memories she had since they are lost.

Furthermore the Florida court system already determined years ago that she would not want to be kept alive via life support (which a feeding tube is, though the fact that she can breathe makes the process of dying much slower), but due to the fact that she lacks a living will, her parents were able to contest the ruling and the tube was removed on two occasions, but then removed again both times when courts upheld the original ruling.

There is absolutly nothing to be gained from keeping this poor woman alive like this, especially against her wishes. She will not recover, she will not regain any sort of functionality, she will simply linger in a barely living sort of way. It's really sad actually, and I can't even think of why someone would want to wish that on someone.

[Scabbed Angel]

How's her husband a scumbag? He doesn't want her to "live" in such a way. I'd rather starve to death.

Personally I'm just sick of hearing about it. People starve everyday. People die everyday and they don't get huge media attention. It's a persoanl matter between the parents and the husband.

[Zodiak]

They showed someone on the news who was in almost the same stae as Teri, and was brought back, now she can read,write, and talk as good as you and me. They might be able to with Teri.


Check out tut: http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31244

[Vile]

Scabbed Angel said:

Personally I'm just sick of hearing about it.

[Zodiak]

Do you think they will re-insert the tubes?

[DOOM Anomaly]

Oh, at first I thought the title said "Shaviro :(" and at that point I was panicing. :P

Scabbed Angel said:

How's her husband a scumbag? He doesn't want her to "live" in such a way. I'd rather starve to death.

Though I'm a little tippy-toppy of such a thing. I suppose I can understand his reason for feeling as he does. I wouldn't want someone I care for to suffer so much. It can't be easy to watch someone just suffer like that.

[Ralphis]

Cyb said:

I don't believe she can swallow since a feeding tube normally extends all the way down your throat and into your stomach.

She can otherwise she'd choke on her own spit. Doctors pointed that out on the news last night

[Scabbed Angel]

On a more relevent and positive note, what would you rather have: Normal Nestle Crunch Bar, or Dark Chocolate Nestle Crunch bar... I'm thinking the dark chocolate would be an interesting change.

[Cyb]

There is a lot of misinformation about this whole thing.

For instance, at this point in the case, her husband has no control over the tube. His original role was that he went to the florida courts and asked them to determine if Terri would want to be kept alive in this state. He, as well as a few friends and family members, testified that Terri had said she would not want to be kept alive like this based on things she had said on different occassions (at funerals and I believe after watching a movie or something). Those testimonies held up under cross examination and it was determined by the court that Terri would want the tube removed.

Her parents were able to contest it simply because she lacked a living will, plus they got lots of unconstitutional help from one judge and Jeb Bush as well as Congress mosty recently. The case has been reviewed four times now, and four times it has been decided that the tube should be removed. The reviews have come about because it's standard law practice. If you want to blame anyone for dragging this out as much as possible you can blame the Schindlers (Terri's parents) and the half-assed (at best) media coverage. The Republican need to pander to their (minority) Christian fundamentalist base also helped with getting that stupid thing passed in Congress the other day.

Ralphis said:

She can otherwise she'd choke on her own spit. Doctors pointed that out on the news last night

Makes some sense, but giving her water would only prolong her death. The human body can survive (assuming a living person that actually functions) without water for around three or four days, but can go without food for three weeks. She can last a lot longer without water (I've heard up to two weeks) since her body is using minimal energy, so giving her some would just prolong the whole ordeal, and, like I said, there's no real reason to do that.

The mouth doesn't produce a hell of a lot of spit anyway. Certainly not enough to choke on since it's produced at a fairly slow rate.

[Fredrik]

Just let her die. This is all ridiculous.

Zodiak said:

But starving to death? That's torture. Have you ever gone a day without eating? You know how your stomach really starts to hurt? Imagine that for 6 days and having no control over it. If they want to kill her, at least do a lethal injection.

Starving to death is not painful. You just get apathetic and indolent toward the end. Reference: Lennart Brodin, Professor of Neurology at Karolinska Institutet, interviewed in Aftonbladet 2005-03-23. And heck, she probably wasn't conscious to begin with to experience any pain.

And yes, I've gone well over a day without eating. What kind of wimp are you? :)

[Zodiak]

Fredrik said:

Just let her die. This is all ridiculous.

Starving to death is not painful. You just get apathetic and indolent toward the end. Reference: Lennart Brodin, Professor of Neurology at Karolinska Institutet, interviewed in Aftonbladet 2005-03-23. And heck, she probably wasn't conscious to begin with to experience any pain.

And yes, I've gone well over a day without eating. What kind of wimp are you? :)

I WAS MAKING A COMPARRISON(not yelling.)

[Scabbed Angel]

I was going to post a "Got Milk" advert, but figured it would be insensitive.

[Sharessa]

Zodiak said:

I WAS MAKING A COMPARRISON(not yelling.)

ANY TIME YOU WRITE IN ALL CAPS ON THE INTERNET IT IS YELLING!!!

[Zodiak]

So you were just yelling? HUH, HUH?

[Fredrik]

I smell stupid.

[Cyb]

actually, she can't swallow: http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/trialctorder0300.pdf

btw that page is a great place to read up on the facts behind the case: http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html

[Xenophon]

Fredrik said:

I smell stupid.

stop this stupid udapted in 2005

[Bucket]

Yes, because you all hope that with enough therapy she might one day function like an average retard, you've trapped her in hell. She could've been at peace years ago, but you opt to have her suffer in her state. REAL HUMANE.

Fucking selfish, that's all her parents are. Who do they think they're trying to save, anyway? The 'old' Terri? Guess what: she's gone forever. You have nothing there but an empty shell of a person. It leaves a void in you. It most certainly leaves a void in her(so to speak). The parents are just being selfish because they can't cope with loss. The fact that this woman who is-- for all intents and purposes-- dead and yet capable of the most BASIC motor functions only enables the family to indulge.