Smooth Cooperators

[Vile]

ftp://competn.doom2.net:8002/incoming/compet-n/30cs2227.zip

We've been hearing this one being discussed in #nightmare2 for a while now, and a conclusion has finally been reached. What you get is Radek Pecka and Vincent Catalaa's joint effort to smash the forces of hell in skill 4, which is over 6 minutes faster than the previous record.

I'd say that more than redeems that nasty topic pun. :)

For those interested, the previous record was 28:43, which was made by Vince and Selim "Bastard" Benabdelkhalek.

[Opulent]

ohhhh baby! Now we're talking!
damn fine?
I guess there is no need to ask.

[Vile]

Oh yeah... I remember mentioning in a previous thread that the update was going to appear before the end of March, although obviously that hasn't happened. We recently got word from Adam that it was to be done by Sunday at the earliest... which was last Sunday. Therefore, I believe the update will be appearing When It's Done and let's leave it at that. :)

[Grazza]

Nice stuff. Funny, it doesn't look hectic at all - as you say, it's all very smooth.

BTW, I presume 0521cs01.zip (in incoming) is related to this, but there appears to have been a bad upload (Winzip gives its "does not appear to be a valid archive" message).

[Vile]

It looks like the quota has been exceeded, so the upload got cut off. They emailed Adam about it, so it'll be fixed eventually.

[Kristian Ronge]

Cut off!? Again? Aww, and I had a speedrun I was going to upload. :-(

But on topic: This one sounds very interesting! I haven't seen it yet, but I'm certain it won't disappoint me. What was done to cut off so much time? Any new tricks, or just faster running?

[Schneelocke]

Vile said:

It looks like the quota has been exceeded, so the upload got cut off. They emailed Adam about it, so it'll be fixed eventually.

AGAIN? *headshakes* Nothing against Adam, but I gotta say that updating less than once in an entire YEAR does not exactly sound like he should still be the one maintaining the archive.

Sure, everybody's swamped with work/school/... sometimes, but a year is really a long time, and if he doesn't have the time to take care of it, then he should be able to say so and hand things off to someone else.

Ah well.

[Kristian Ronge]

Well, I'm split regarding this matter. Yes, indeed, not updating for 12 months, not answering e-mail (making people worried that something bad's happened), disk quotas being exceeded for periods of time... if that is "maintaining" or not may well be debated.

OTOH, one must think about where the COMPET-N would be today had it not been for Adam. He hasn't been paid a single dime for all the years of hard work he's put into the site and the archive, making it a well-oiled piece of machinery. The site more or less runs itself and the updates really only mean a transfer of files from /incoming to their respecitve places in the hierarchy (and updating the IWAD and PWAD database, which I'm sure Adam has written some very helpful scripts for). People can still access all the demos all the time, new ones from /incoming and old ones from the archive, it's not like any demos are left unknown to the people involved with the COMPET-N just because there isn't an update. In fact, the COMPET-N, as far as I can tell, has always been pretty independant of how often it's updated. With the searchable database, Adam has geared the site even more towards a state where there is a very small need for maintenance... Everything works, everyone can find any demo they want to check out... Is it really necessary to have updates more than, say, once a year? I don't believe so. I would like to hear others' opinions in this matter, there are so many whose opinions far out-weigh mine... :-/

EDIT: I realise this is very OT. Perhaps a thread split is in order?

[Schneelocke]

I didn't mean to belittle Adam's work at all - sorry if it came across like that. I decidedly disagree with the sentiment that updates aren't needed more often than once a year, though. The opposite is true - updates should happen as often and continually as possible, so that ideally, there would not even be big batch updates anymore at all.

Even with the nifty database and all that, what good is the COMPET-N site when you can't find out what a current record for this or that map without also checking the /incoming directory manually to see if someone did a faster run over the course of the past year (or longer)?

And there still is the question why the whole thing has to be managed by just ONE person, too - why can't there simply be a group of trusted people that all have the ability to move demos from /incoming to the regular places after reviewing them so the scripts will pick up the changes?

[BahdKo]

Im certain that c-n updates are more involved than just moving files around. The demos are required to all be recorded with Doom2, be correct for the catagories, actually have the times that the textfiles claim they do, etc. I don't know how Adam does all of his verification work on the demos but, if it were just moving files around, he wouldn't have caught the problems that he did with certain uploads in the past.

--BahdKo

[Schneelocke]

BahdKo said:

Im certain that c-n updates are more involved than just moving files around. The demos are required to all be recorded with Doom2, be correct for the catagories, actually have the times that the textfiles claim they do, etc. I don't know how Adam does all of his verification work on the demos but, if it were just moving files around, he wouldn't have caught the problems that he did with certain uploads in the past.

--BahdKo

That's why I said "move the files... after reviewing them". :)

[Kristian Ronge]

Yes, should have made that clear also.. that's "quietly assumed".

EDIT: However, I thought of something... say Adam *didn't* verify the times or validity of the demos -- wouldn't anyone watching the COMPET-N demos notice and inform him of it? IIRC, the system Frank Stajano used for DHT was set up so that he didn't watch all, or even most, of the demos; instead he relied on the fact that if there were faults with the demos, someone watching would let him know there was a problem and he could take care of it.

[Grazza]

The problem with /incoming appears to have been resolved and there is another Vincent/Radek masterpiece available for viewing.

[Vile]

You can read into this however you like, but there's new information regarding the impending Compet-N update, which is now scheduled for the end of this week. Adam is going out of town until Thursday, but it appears that all database updates have been completed. Also, since the quota for incoming has been hit, there won't be any new runs submitted before the update.

In the meantime, some #nightmare2 regulars are helping to prepare the listing for the 2004 Cybers. There isn't as many demos as previous years, nor as many tricks discovered, nor as many new players, etc. There should be enough stuff altogether to keep it from being a waste of time, though.

This may come across as a message from some kind of hype machine, but it's finally going to happen. :)

[TheHappySpoon]

2005 is the year of TheHappySpoon!

I am going to focus my ass on creating r demos for the populus!

[Schneelocke]

Vile said:

You can read into this however you like, but there's new information regarding the impending Compet-N update, which is now scheduled for the end of this week. Adam is going out of town until Thursday, but it appears that all database updates have been completed. Also, since the quota for incoming has been hit, there won't be any new runs submitted before the update.

In the meantime, some #nightmare2 regulars are helping to prepare the listing for the 2004 Cybers. There isn't as many demos as previous years, nor as many tricks discovered, nor as many new players, etc. There should be enough stuff altogether to keep it from being a waste of time, though.

This may come across as a message from some kind of hype machine, but it's finally going to happen. :)

Nice. That's good news for a change. ^_^

[DooMBoy]

To get back on track with this topic, I just watched these demos and I must say that they are indeed very smooth and fun to watch.

Oh, and...8,000th post :)