How do I get the floor to go above?

[sinyx]

Ok if any of you played Goldeneye you will know what I am talking about. In the DM temple level, there is a hole in the middle of the floor to a room below. I would like to put this effect in my map but can't figure out how. I would also like to have the player able to fall through the hole to the next level, and shoot through it.

Now I tried using the bridge function in Zdoom in Hexen mode, I'm using Doom Builder by the way, but couldn't get it working. I'm not good at doing bridges either. If somebody could help that would be great.

[Pika132]

The effect you want is called "room over room". zDooM doesn't support it. Period.

[Vader]

Though in can be faked!
Let the player teleport by Zheights into a new equal looking room, when falling into the hole.
You wouldn´t be able to shoot through the hole, but with the right use of stacked sectors, you could let the player even view the room below!

[sinyx]

see I thouhgt it could be done because in Zdeamon ctf there is a level with a tunnel in it. I figured I could just make the tunnel a room, I mean it has poison river in it and everything. So if it cant be done then how did this guy pull it off?

[CodeImp]

Thats done with a fake ceiling and floor. Its a very lame way to make a tunnel, almost as lame as the use of middle textures to make a bridge (also shown in that level). Why? Because its not room-over-room, its not really there. You can shoot through it and monsters can see through it and shoot through it as well. If you're playing a 8 vs 8 CTF on that map, you often get shot when you walk through that tunnel, because of the activity above you.

The closest thing i've seen to real room-over-room in Doom are the 3D floors in Doom Legacy. They are real solid floors (optionally translucent) which allow for much more customization and you cannot shoot through them. Neither can mosters. Yet, monster still can see through the floor and the archvile flame still reaches you through the floor. But I guess these are easy to solve, and maybe they already did (havent checked lately).

If you want to do a bridge in ZDoom im afraid using middle textures and bridge things are the only solution. Faked room-over-room is also possible, as Vader said, but also comes with one or more weird artifacts as i mentioned above. If youre making a singleplayer map and design it in a way those artifacts dont show, its a cool thing, but as soon as one of those artifacts occur, the fun is over IMO.

[iori]

Edge and Vavoom also have true 3d floors.

[Lobo]

iori said:

Edge and Vavoom also have true 3d floors.

And for several years now in the case of EDGE(it was one of the first).

[Bastet Furry]

After reading this, what would you think about modding quake 1 to "play back" normal wad files and still be able to load pk1 files with new maps that are made inside Hammer or something similiar.

WIth that we can have our normal, original doom gfx but inside a true 3D envoirement.

I lack the skills, but maybee i gave someone with the skills something to work on ;)

[Nick Perrin]

http://doomworld.com/fanatic/qdoom.htm
ENTER QDOOM

[Bastet Furry]

Nick Perrin said:

http://doomworld.com/fanatic/qdoom.htm
ENTER QDOOM

Wrong way around.
Not quake in dooom but doom in quake ;)

[Nick Perrin]

I know but the point is, you can come close with extrafloors and such. Anyway, doomsday supports 3d models, you can make your own.

[deep]

iori said:

Edge and Vavoom also have true 3d floors.

And RISEN3D.

In summary: Edge, Legacy, Risen3D and Vavoom all have true 3D floors. All done differently and all with different capabilities :)

[Nick Perrin]

I know EDGE can do 3d elevators, I work with it a lot, but what can the others do in terms of moving extrafloors(3d floors)?

Are there any with moving plats(in a sideways direction as well as up and down)?

[david_a]

Bastet Furry said:

After reading this, what would you think about modding quake 1 to "play back" normal wad files and still be able to load pk1 files with new maps that are made inside Hammer or something similiar.

WIth that we can have our normal, original doom gfx but inside a true 3D envoirement.

That's essentially what Vavoom is.

[iori]

No horizontally moving plats, as they would have to be separate from the bsp to function (kind of like a polyobject from a subsector..if that were at all possible). I dont know if Vavoom can do this or not.

[LexiMax]

CodeImp said:

Thats done with a fake ceiling and floor. Its a very lame way to make a tunnel, almost as lame as the use of middle textures to make a bridge (also shown in that level). Why? Because its not room-over-room, its not really there. You can shoot through it and monsters can see through it and shoot through it as well. If you're playing a 8 vs 8 CTF on that map, you often get shot when you walk through that tunnel, because of the activity above you.

This is odd. I wonder how big of a problem it would be to prevent shots from going through the bridge. I know for a fact that it stops projectile weapons.

[Bastet Furry]

iori said:

No horizontally moving plats, as they would have to be separate from the bsp to function (kind of like a polyobject from a subsector..if that were at all possible). I dont know if Vavoom can do this or not.

What if calculating bsp localy for the part changing?

[iori]

I think that's what polyobjects do, but I'm a relative layman in respect to how things like that work.

[Sporku]

There are a lot of way to fake Room Over Room by using Silent Teleporters. Also, ZDoom apparently has portals (aka Stacked Sectors), which can further be used to fake Room Over Room, but currently they don't work worth a damn without either crashing ZDoom or causing random homs.

[Bastet Furry]

AgentSpork said:

There are a lot of way to fake Room Over Room by using Silent Teleporters. Also, ZDoom apparently has portals (aka Stacked Sectors), which can further be used to fake Room Over Room, but currently they don't work worth a damn without either crashing ZDoom or causing random homs.

Thats why Randy works on using some of build-engine code inside zdoom, especial the RoR code of it. In build you can stack sectors even on the same height ;)

[Vader]

AgentSpork said:

There are a lot of way to fake Room Over Room by using Silent Teleporters. Also, ZDoom apparently has portals (aka Stacked Sectors), which can further be used to fake Room Over Room, but currently they don't work worth a damn without either crashing ZDoom or causing random homs.

Well as Codeimp said,
ther´re several limitations, but you just have to find a way to work around them!
Once you know how to do it, you can achieve great effects...

Edit:
demonstartion pics (looks better in game!)