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Khorus

Dehacker Wanted!!

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I'm halfway through a megawad and was wondering if anyone would like to do a weapons mod to go with it? I have done 12 levels so far. I'll adjust the balance if I have to.

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WildWeasel said:

What port are you making the levels for?


Doomsday\Jdoom. I can email anyone a copy of the wad if they like. Just post a forum or email me.

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Psh, Dehacked. Decorate is where it's at. JDEWM SUX, GET WITH THE TIMES FOLKS

Edit by Grazza: this blatant piece of trolling/hijacking has been noted.

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Well, JDoom it looks far superior than any other source port available. Well, ZDoom has softwear rendering and the GL version has alot of glitches on my machine. Edge's mouse control isn't the best, same as legacy, and skulltag is mainly multiplayer. Which is my opinion. Which is really what it comes down to. People's opinion. Not "JDEWM SUCKS." Once JDoom supports bridges, there'll be no reason not to use it. In my opinion.

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There will be a reason. I don't feel like wasting a gigabyte of HD space just so I can have fancy textures that my machine can't render at full speed.
And some people prefer software rendering over hardware accelerated. I also don't see what you mean by mouse control. They're all fine in that respect.

In my opinion.

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evilhomerdoomer said:

Once JDoom supports bridges, there'll be no reason not to use it. In my opinion.

You can make bridges that are actually models.
The player can run over and underneath them.

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evilhomerdoomer said:

Well, JDoom it looks far superior than any other source port available.


Graphics != Gameplay

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JDoom is actually a bit too complex. Most mods that I've found for it seem to be just too complicated, and I can't be sure if things are even working right once I have installed a mod.

The advantage of using a different port is that it's possible to contain everything required to play your mod in just one file, rather than having a convoluted ZIP or EXE installer and requiring the user to run KickStart.

exl said:

There will be a reason. I don't feel like wasting a gigabyte of HD space just so I can have fancy textures that my machine can't render at full speed.

I concur. In terms of graphics, the only thing I've seen JDoom do that other ports don't is the fancy lighting and models. Most WAD authors I've seen that work with JDoom tend to slap pretty lights and models in rather than actually concentrate on making the level look good. Not to mention gameplay sucks half the time (jDarken II, anybody? Weapons are too weak, levels haven't been changed at all).

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And one thing: JDoom has the worst DeHackEd support of almost any port. (Only port that is worse is VaVoom: Even EDGE 1.29 has native BEX support)

EDIT:

evilhomerdoomer said:

Well, JDoom it looks far superior than any other source port available. Well, ZDoom has softwear rendering and the GL version has alot of glitches on my machine.


So it doesn't have eye candy. So what?

[b]Edge's mouse control isn't the best, same as legacy


Not that I've experienced

skulltag is mainly
multiplayer.


Hence the new monsters....

Once JDoom supports bridges, there'll be no reason not to use it. I my opinion.


Let's see, Things other ports have over JDoom

ZDoom: Slopes, Ease of use, a decent menu system, DeHackEd support, strong, easy to use language for defining new things

EDGE: Menu system again, Better
DeHackEd support again, plus a strong, easy to use scripting language for weapons and actors.

Legacy: 3D floors, menu system.

Boom and derivates: Menu, DeHackEd.

VaVoom: 3D floors, EDIT: and slopes

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WildWeasel said:

JDoom is actually a bit too complex. Most mods that I've found for it seem to be just too complicated, and I can't be sure if things are even working right once I have installed a mod.


I had the same experience so far. One can never be quite sure whether everything goes into the right place. So far I haven't seen a single JDoom mod that was as easy to use as those for the other source ports. Frankly, the entire data organization is a total mess from an end user's point of view.

A negative side effect of this is that I tend to delete such messy distributions ASAP because I don't want to bother with nonsense like this. It should all be in as few files as possible and never ever require a launcher to start. Doomsday is the only major source port which I can't use in a decent fashion without one.

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Please do not yell at me, but what is an actor? Is that like an enemy/item/powerup/decoration thing?

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The advantage of using a different port is that it's possible to contain everything required to play your mod in just one file, rather than having a convoluted ZIP or EXE installer and requiring the user to run KickStart.

In that case who ever made the mods you've played fail it.

Doomsday has PK3 for a reason. You can put all files into ONE.

Addtionaly you can use WAD (yes even models can be put inside a WAD) for those of you affraid of PK3.

I don't feel like wasting a gigabyte of HD space just so I can have fancy textures that my machine can't render at full speed.

The jDTP which contains hires versions of all textures (even those from Final Doom) is only 26MB. Don't know where your getting your figures from...

"Only" models? Using models you can create things that are simply IMPOSSIBLE to create using standard Doom architecture. Just look at some of the levels authors like sitters are creating with proper natural looking caves (not a sector with a few slopes sticking out the floor/ceiling).

EDIT: WTF? I can't even delete a dup post?

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DaniJ said:

Doomsday has PK3 for a reason. You can put all files into ONE.



You can but it still doesn't eliminate some of the messes around.

The jDTP which contains hires versions of all textures (even those from Final Doom) is only 26MB. Don't know where your getting your figures from...


And what about custom textures? I have seen Sitters's maps. Sure they look impressive but to do that they need up to 20x as much memory as any regular Doom map. Yes, the megabytes add up rather quickly.


If it was just the original textures (which I'd never replace to begin with) it'd be a different matter.

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You can but it still doesn't eliminate some of the messes around.

Like what?? AFAIK ALL files (other than demos) can be put in a PK3/WAD.

And what about custom textures? I have seen Sitters's maps. Sure they look impressive but to do that they need up to 20x as much memory as any regular Doom map. Yes, the megabytes add up rather quickly.

There is no way around that. It's the same for any mod for a modern game. You want custom hires textures in your level? - Then you pay the price in file size.

I fail to see your point.

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DaniJ said:

Like what?? AFAIK ALL files (other than demos) can be put in a PK3/WAD.



They can but there are still messy distributions around. Someone has to use PK3 first to take advantage of it.

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They can but there are still messy distributions around. Someone has to use PK3 first to take advantage of it.

Oh you mean existing stuff. Well obviously nothing can be done about those other than repacking them into a WAD/PK3 and redistributing.

The fact is though, those limitations no longer exist.

The directory structure is very simple indeed IMO. You can either put any mods you want to use in Data/[game]/auto or load them when you want to use them (via whatever means you like (eg Snowberry, command line, response file etc etc)).

I don't see where the complication is. Data files go in data/. Definitions go in defs/.

but what is an actor? Is that like an enemy/item/powerup/decoration thing?

Yes in this context an actor is any THING (in the parlance of the Doom engine) such as monsters, decorations etc.

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DaniJ said:

Like what?? AFAIK ALL files (other than demos) can be put in a PK3/WAD.
There is no way around that. It's the same for any mod for a modern game. You want custom hires textures in your level? - Then you pay the price in file size.

I fail to see your point.



It wasn't my point I wanted to make. It was Exl's. To some people megabytes matter. And don't underestimate the distributon problems. If those multi-megabyte single map releases appeared more frequently I wouldn't be surprised if the /idgames archives stopped hosting them when they start eating up all the space.

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Oh, well then, thanks. Yeah, edge has wonderful thing and weapon support, plus true 3d and nice Gl support, with options that you can turn on and off (like blur, ect..). The coding (DDF) is so damn easy it's laughable.

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It wasn't my point I wanted to make. It was Exl's.

Opps, sorry I should have directed that elsewhere.

To some people megabytes matter. And don't underestimate the distributon problems. If those multi-megabyte single map releases appeared more frequently I wouldn't be surprised if the /idgames archives stopped hosting them when they start eating up all the space.

Indeed it is an issue but similarly, as with other game communities it is expected that authors provide their own downloads or use a file hosting service provided by either community hub or generic service (ie fileplanet).

However, I'm fortunate enough to have access to unlimited ftp space and bandwidth and will be setting up a download repository for Doomsday shortly. So I will be able to host big mods like sitters Aztec.

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DaniJ said:

Indeed it is an issue but similarly, as with other game communities it is expected that authors provide their own downloads or use a file hosting service provided by either community hub or generic service (ie fileplanet).


Things like Fileplanet are not the solution. They are the problem that makes it a pain to get any mods for more modern games. The /idgames archives are probably the biggest asset of the Doom community but if the files were to become significantly bigger this could be in danger.

And not everybody has access to a decent hosting service. Those which are free are mostly too limited for any decent use and paying for this is not an option for most mappers.

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Things like Fileplanet are not the solution. They are the problem that makes it a pain to get any mods for more modern games. The /idgames archives are probably the biggest asset of the Doom community but if the files were to become significantly bigger this could be in danger.

Sites/services like Fileplanet are a solution to a problem not the problem itself.

Mods like Aztec will only become more frequent as authors begin to use more and larger resources with their Doom mods. This is not just an issue with Doomsday mods, I've seen several PWADs larger than 30mb.

I agree /idgames is a big asset to this community but if file size is a problem (eg anything larger than 10MB) then an alternative solution needs to be found.

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DaniJ said:

Sites/services like Fileplanet are a solution to a problem not the problem itself.



I disagree here. If I want to download something, I just want to download it. I don't want to click through registration pages and I most certainly don't want to submit any personal data. That's simply not possible there. I don't register at sites where my privacy is not guaranteed and trying to use fake email addresses has failed so far. I am getting enough spam mail already.

And here's the main reason why I rarely play more modern games. It is far to tedious to get decent content.

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Fair enough thats your stance.

I do play modern games and I won't stop playing modern games and exclusively play a 12 year old game just because of those reasons.

I'm not having a go but it's my opinion your being paranoid about sites like that. Most of them don't actually abuse your personal data. I work at an ISP who develops community portals and the main reasons for wanting your personal data is either for self promotion (ie sending you mails about the site but you can opt out) or to track your activity on the site you have registered at. This info is then used to analyze the site and see what works and what doesn't. This is going waaayyy off topic so I'll stop there.

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Hmm, didn't this discussion go a bit offtopic? It wasn't primarily about advantages and disadvantages of nowadays Source Ports...

I just don't get one thing. Your project is for Doomsday, yup? Why do You use DeHackEd (really, I'm not too familiar with Doomsday). Doesn't it have it's own language to script a bunch of new things?

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ellmo said:

(really, I'm not too familiar with Doomsday). Doesn't it have it's own language to script a bunch of new things?

It does. DEDs (Doomsday Engine Definition).

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