Deathwish

[MikeyScoots]

Something new and cool I'm trying out, an E2 styled modern day version using zdoom effects and being placed in Doom2. As usual, some screenshots:

[ducon]

Will we see Charles Bronson as guest star here?

[MikeyScoots]

ducon said:

Will we see Charles Bronson as guest star here?

I dont get the joke.

[Dutch Doomer]

Bloodskull said:

I dont get the joke.

Charles bronson from the deathwish movies,I got his joke.

[ellmo]

There were like 5 Deathwish movies filmed. Gah, even the fact that Bronson was polish doesn't make mee feel better about them. Typical 60's action motion pictures. Dumb ones.

As for the screenies. Solid, but as someone said: nothing made me go wow. And avoid Doom 2 monsters like Mancubi, Revenants, Archies and Pains, that will definately ruin E2 style.

[Johnny]

I thought this thread was about the old megawad dethwish.

[Amaster]

Oi, I wish I was dead.

[Nmn]

Looks pretty good so far. Mostly crampy area, try experimenting with some larger cargo storage or base exteriors. Remember, unlike some belive, crates were for the first time used in e2 (containment area) and not e1.

Here a two wads I recomend to help You get a stronger grip on the e2 feeling, which is IMO a mixture of an e1 base style and hell. It's a kind of a base being slowly transformed into hell, in my opinion and according to the storyline (altough rather rubbish): demons brought their reality with them.

Chris Hansen's Rip it..
http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=11784
My own Dreadful change
http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=12787

The 2002 ADO e2 maps didn't capture the e2 atmosphere too much in my humble opinion, with the exception of e2m2 and e2m7, which are also some of the best levels of the pack.

[MikeyScoots]

Well while I'm going for the E2 styled level, I'm adding a twist to it which would kinda maybe ruin the E2 style just a bit, but still atmosphere it in a way. This is going to be the wad where I experiment with my "Time Travel" idea. It's working out pretty good so far, and progress is going great.

Edit:Damn you NMN, now I feel like crap because of those levels and how I'll never achieve that kind of level into editing. Next map will be true E2 then!

[Lutrov71]

ellmo said:

as someone said: nothing made me go wow.

That's what I said. :)
It looks alright. Detail is alright too, but the wow factor is important.

[MikeyScoots]

Lutrov71 said:

That's what I said. :)
It looks alright. Detail is alright too, but the wow factor is important.

Would this possibly spill out a wow?

On a side note, I'm gonna convert the map to E2m1, and go classy as everyone insists on it, and I feel it will bring more of a close feeling to E2.

[Lutrov71]

No, not really, it looks like the other screenshots. But I guess the wow could be in the gameplay too. ;)

[MikeyScoots]

Lutrov71 said:

No, not really, it looks like the other screenshots. But I guess the wow could be in the gameplay too. ;)

Yeah, I guess you could say that. You'll just have to wait and see.

[Use]

Looks like a typical Bloodskull map to me.

[MikeyScoots]

Use3D said:

Looks like a typical Bloodskull map to me.

I think it's far from a typical Bloodskull map if you look back at the old Shadowrunner days.

[Use]

Naturally, just remember to focus on layout first and inane details afterward. Sticking crap in the ceiling and walls is fun and everything but layout will make or break a map.

[Lutrov71]

I don't think detailing earlier on will make much of a difference to how the layout will turn out, but don't make the map linear, that is important. And if you make it easy to get lost on the map, I won't like.

[iori]

Linearity is a mapping style. Some doom maps are linear, some are nonlinear, where getting lost is common. As long as the gameplay and to a lesser degree detail, is good, then the map will be good, linear or otherwise.

Also, I should note that that map looks nothing like episode II :/

[MikeyScoots]

Lutrov71 said:

And if you make it easy to get lost on the map, I won't like.

Nah, your not gonna get lost on this map. I hate levels like that such as E2m5 that give you about 20 ways to go making you get lost very easily, it's very confusing and aggravating. It's definitly not linear, as the player is actually thrown into a cool concept of being teleported from present to past or present to future, to not an exact replicate of the corrosponding areas, but more of a modded up version, and because of being thrown into the past, most of the areas are removed as they dont exist in that time period of the level. Understand? No, confusing yes. You'll just have to wait and find out for yourselves.

[Lutrov71]

Yeah whatever. And I think very linear maps can be a bad thing. At least have 2 or 3 ways to get somewhere, otherwise It's just one straight journey.

[m0l0t0v]

ellmo:
Typical 60's action motion pictures

You mean 70's right...

Deathwish I (the movie) was actually pretty good. The sequels (typical 80's action movies) all sucked.

[Sporku]

but don't make the map linear, that is important

>:( I like my maps linear, thank you very much. Even if people do complain about my maps being too linear.

[ducon]

I watched Deathwish 3 with a friend, whoa. Drink and burp a beer, spend a bit more than an hour, get a laugh.

[Dutch Doomer]

My last map was linear all the way,I hope to do it better with my new one im building right now.
There will be at least two ways to get to an certain area.

[ellmo]

m0l0t0v:
You mean 70's right...

Deathwish I (the movie) was actually pretty good. The sequels (typical 80's action movies) all sucked.

Ah, I only got to see some of the sequels. The lastest ones, I'm afraid, like fourth and fifth, so can't tell much about the first part...

agentSpork:
>:( I like my maps linear, thank you very much. Even if people do complain about my maps being too linear.

Yeah, don't listen to them. Just think - how many good non-linear maps do you know? Because I happen to know very little.
Non-linearity is a skill of a higher grade. Personally I don't think I ever made a non-linear map. However I'm happy with those linear I have done.
Oh, and two doors leading to a room, instead of one door... that's not non-linearity.

[MikeyScoots]

dutch devill said:

My last map was linear all the way,I hope to do it better with my new one im building right now.
There will be at least two ways to get to an certain area.

Yeah making a map non-linear is one of my weak points. I could try to make it non linear by adding an extra area to a area thats closed, but you would still have to go to the main area that the activing line is required to open it, so I'm not exactly sure on that myself. I like to think of non linear as being able to go multiple paths but not too many, just to avoid confusion.

[The Flange Peddler]

ellmo said:

Just think - how many good non-linear maps do you know? Because I happen to know very little.

There are plenty of good/excellent non-linear maps. Linearity isn't an absolute if you ask me. A map doesn't have to be completely non-linear, in fact complete non-linearity can get confusing too easily. There's one really cool E2-themed map (can't remember it's name at the moment), that if anything can get a bit confusing because of it's non-linearity.

But the best maps in my opinion always have elements of non-linearity in them. Times when the player is given choices as to which way to go, or allowing the player to tackle a given room in multiple different ways, yet still maintaining a fairly well guided path through the level as a whole. Most of the good original maps have this, as do plenty of other wads (scythe to name one, vrack3 also to some degree, and SargeBaldy is pretty good at it too).

Basically a bit of variation is good to me, there's times when linearity can work well, but I would try not to make a map completely linear.

[Xenophon]

Just make the exit require more than one key and allow the player to collect the keys in whatever order he wants. Lame, but it kind of works.

[Use]

The Flange Peddler said:

But the best maps in my opinion always have elements of non-linearity in them. Times when the player is given choices as to which way to go, or allowing the player to tackle a given room in multiple different ways, yet still maintaining a fairly well guided path through the level as a whole. Most of the good original maps have this, as do plenty of other wads

Basically a bit of variation is good to me, there's times when linearity can work well, but I would try not to make a map completely linear.

I agree. I also have limited patience for those who get 'lost' or confused when a map gives them more chances to complete it in different ways. The game has an auotmap for christ's sake, how lost can you possibly get? Good design will keep the player interested and playing long enough to finish the level.

Saving in the middle of a large non-linear map and leaving it for a spell may cause confusion but I think it's safe to say you've lost the player's interest at that point.

Xenophon said:

Just make the exit require more than one key and allow the player to collect the keys in whatever order he wants. Lame, but it kind of works.

Not lame at all, and this is a fun way of making the map path variable. See cc1map12 (shameless)...

[MikeyScoots]

Xenophon said:

Just make the exit require more than one key and allow the player to collect the keys in whatever order he wants. Lame, but it kind of works.

Uhm, maybe in the earlier levels of my episode replacment(oops). I have a great concept already in mind for the exit.