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Lengis

JDoom vs Duke Nukem 3d (Graphics wise)

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Does anyone else agree with me when I say, JDoom looks even better than Duke Nukem, or any other Build Engine game? Even Redneck Rampage which supposedly is the best looking Build Engine game, seems inferior graphic wise to JDoom.

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> = looks greater

Jdoom > Quake1 (i dont want brownie)
Jdoom > Quake2 (sort of)
Jdoom > Duke Nukem (hate it! cartoon graphics with a gay theme)

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Jdoom > Duke Nukem (hate it! cartoon graphics with a gay theme)


It seems like all games using the build engine used the same style as far as characters go. I don't see why it would have ended up a defining characteristic as it did. Oh well.

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...that most of you have a very limited or at least are using a very limited amount of your knowledge of graphics programming and graphics hardware.

OF COURSE Jdoom is going to look better than Quake 1/2 and Duke3D. It's based on a much more powerful layer of hardware abstraction that just wasn't present in the days of Quake and Duke3D, and as far as Quake 2...well, that's a matter of preference, really. I like Quake 2's lighting more than Jdoom's, but Jdoom does an admirable job considering the quality of source material available to it.

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...that most of you have a very limited or at least are using a very limited amount of your knowledge of graphics programming and graphics hardware.

OF COURSE Jdoom is going to look better than Quake 1/2 and Duke3D. It's based on a much more powerful layer of hardware abstraction that just wasn't present in the days of Quake and Duke3D, and as far as Quake 2...well, that's a matter of preference, really. I like Quake 2's lighting more than Jdoom's, but Jdoom does an admirable job considering the quality of source material available to it.


Q2 doesn't have lens flares, but JDoom doesn't have nearly the detail level most of the time that Q2 has.

BTW, my opinion is JDoom > Halflife as well.

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Opengl ports of Doom = Blurry ugly mess.

JDoom = slightly more colorful, shiny, blurry ugly mess (with lensflares).

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Yeah, now if Blood only wasn't more fun to play than Q, Q2, JDoom and Half-Life combined.

I prefer ZDoom or straight vanilla by a helluva longshot. I just have something against GL sprite based games, I dunno what it is.

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JDoom = colorful, not terribly blurry, but as much of a mess as the original Doom (god, I want to know why the UAC can't get painters that can do patterns finer than about 3/4" square).

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I just have to look at the subject of this post and tell you what I think...

JDOOM is 0wning duke3d, quake, redneck rampage and any other 3d realms game that is not 3d hardware accelerated.

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Blood isn't 3D Realms and it whoops the dogpiss out of JDoom. It's fast paced, challenging, fun as hell, excellently detailed and doesn't turn everything into a gigantic blur.

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Blood isn't 3D Realms and it whoops the dogpiss out of JDoom. It's fast paced, challenging, fun as hell, excellently detailed and doesn't turn everything into a gigantic blur.


Hush, boy, unless you have a hankerin' for a capital where you don't want it.

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I don't know. As much as I agree that JDoom is much more graphically satisfying than Q1/Q2, it's really more of a utility than a game. Just like pretty much all source ports, of course. They're loaded with twinking options, options for infinite ammo, fog, FOV, HUD, and so on. All I'm saying is, I don't know if you can compare the DOOM ports to Q1/Q2/DN3D, because the former are utilities while the latter are (sort of) games.

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.... aside from the visuals, the game is spooky and surreal. Far more spooky, I thought, than DooM. In fact I'd have to rate it as the spookiest FPS that I've played. There was an excellent TC for Duke3D based on "The Shining", which was also very spooky, but Blood takes the cake. Blood2 on the other hand was a disappointment.

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Well Blood 2 was made with brand spanking new technology as well as they rushed that game out the door like HELL. A real shame, they should've taken their time.

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Well Blood 2 was made with brand spanking new technology

I agree that visually the game was spectacular. However, it just didn't have the same creepy feeling as the original Blood. Blood 2 was more clinical and less scary.

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I agree that visually the game was spectacular. However, it just didn't have the same creepy feeling as the original Blood. Blood 2 was more clinical and less scary.

Well I never meant the game was visually spectacular, hahah. I thought it was decent. The hit detection was weak and the disembodiment was very rough but those features were in there and active early on I guess.

The game does feel a lot less grainy than the original, and that's probably why it is simply not as fun... it also moves a lot slower.

But the explosions and the gunsmoke were badassed, I wish some other game companies would've copied 'em.

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Ah... Blood. I wish I had a better soundcard so it won't crash in Windows everytime the sound echos (reflective shots, underwater, etc). I don't feel like booting into DOS every time I want to play it. The game is equal with Doom gameplay-wise IMO.

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Ah... Blood. I wish I had a better soundcard so it won't crash in Windows everytime the sound echos (reflective shots, underwater, etc). I don't feel like booting into DOS every time I want to play it. The game is equal with Doom gameplay-wise IMO.


I actually had that same problem. The part that sucks is that both DN3D and Shadow Warrior have pstches available to fix this problem, but Monolith won't take as much time to support their older games. All I can think to do is send a petition to have them fix it... but I've asked them stuff before and the get pretty pissy when you doubt their abilities (I asked about Blood 2 while it was in development, and who do you think turned out to be right in the end) Speaking of Blood 2, if you actually read all the background story they made up concerning the game, the final product becomes far more dissapointing. They had what have been a truly great game and they got rushed, careless, and arrogant.

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Well Duke3D and SW crash on my system without patching, but Blood runs perfectly fine. GT owns the rights to Blood but since that company ate itself the rights now belong to Infogrames... and I doubt those bastards even give a damn.

The 3DR guys have said they might release the Duke3D source when Duke4 ships. If so, then Infogrames could release the Blood source. They probably won't without a helluvalot of belligerant petitioning on our part though.

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.... that went by the way-side, SiN is another game that never took off. Admittedly the opening sequence, where you can use the helicopter machine-guns to blast the enemies off the roof-top, was innovative. But beyond that it sucked -- the enemies and weapons were grainy as hell, and the game crashed every so often.

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Personally I only have two problems with SiN:
1. Horrible initial release. Buggy as all hell.
2. When you start up the game it changes your resolution, like, ninety times. That's rediculous as hell.

Other than that I loved that game, probably more than Half-Life. It was hella fun, fast paced, excellently designed and I loved how there always seemed to be more than one way to do things.

Those damn turrets usually end up pissing me off though, and I'm not a big fan of that swimming level either.

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... was Requiem: Avenging Angel. Again, some innovation, but otherwise disappointing.

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Hey, you PCI cards owners with frequent crashes on echo-enhanced sectors, go download those patches to hack the audio settings. They're on 3drealm's site.
It's kinda hard to play those games without getting in the water :)

As for the actual topic, Jdoom looks like ass compared to Build games. WHY AM I SAYING THAT?? IT HAS MANY MANY COLORS!!!!!111 AND LENS FLARES!11&%$#

There's more than that. BUILD sports fully stretcheable textures, something that gives you the chance to make very sharp detail without all that stupid blurring you get for DooM's fixed pixel size. Larger sprites, larger weapons, etc etc...

Sure, there's no "good" color lighting, of bilinear filtering, but you people are comparing a 3d accelerated engine with a software one. Shame.

Oh, and those saying Jdoom looks better than Quake 1/2 need a new pair of eyeballs.

There's something on Jdoom's horrible multiply-textured circular gradients that doesn't look quite good as fully functional lightmaps.

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Oh, and those saying Jdoom looks better than Quake 1/2 need a new pair of eyeballs.

I think they're just saying the maps look better because they're Doom maps instead of looking at what the actual engine is capable of.

JDoom's blur is a nightmare. Having graphic acceleration doesn't mean all it's capable of doing should be forced on you. Quite a few other games I've played (Tomb Raider comes to mind first) had the option to keep the 3D acceleration but turn off the silly blurring and other effects. That's the way it should be.

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Blurring it's not the problem, actually (altough Jdoom's method is a bit too excessive). It's the textures, the GODDAMN small textures.

At such small sizes, linear filtering keeps the detail drawn over the image, while bilinear filtering blurs the hell out of it. Sharp corners turn into a bloated, smooooooth mess of colors.

Mipmapping does a lot of shit too. You might even want to deactivate it for large levels. Nothing as horrible as seeing the textures and flats in the horizon turn into a single color.

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Blurring it's not the problem, actually (altough Jdoom's method is a bit too excessive). It's the textures, the GODDAMN small textures.

Well, I realize that, that's why I was saying the GL Doom of ALL GL FPS games should have the blurring disabled. I know it does look better with mipmapping than without it when you get into things like using 512x512 textures on a panel the size of a 128x128 Doom wall, but until Doom supports such high-res textures and texture scaling, it's best off without any blurring filters at all.

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I have always though Duke3D was ugly, especially the later textures, plus some of the enemies look sort of nasty.

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Well, in my opinion, JDoom is one beautiful source port. I prefer bluriness over pixelization any day.
I prefer any source port that has options where you can turn the 'GL' stuff-like EDGE 1.26. Duke3D's graphics are pretty messy. They are almost as bad as ordinary Doom's. The enemies are kind of, well, nasty and so are the textures throughout the game.

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On the topic of Blood 1, I loved that game. Great atmosphere, and great level design. Extremely fun, and blows Duke 3d out of the water. Graphically, IMO, it was superior to Duke3d, in that it had great textures, but the color palette was a bit on the bland side. Other than that the enemies are awsome, and who can forget that excellent CD Music! Screw Duke's horrible midi shit.

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