Demo-Recording Blunders

[Vile]

I'm really bored right now, so I thought I'd introduce a topic that doesn't really get talked about... for me, sometimes it's the blooper reel that I remember the most from a particular session because some bizarre or just plain unfortunate things can happen.

1. Q Proximity

I've used WASD for just about all FPS games... some might consider this key setup to be fatally flawed when recording doom demos, and most of the time I can get away with it... but not always. One misplaced keystroke and anywhere from 3 seconds to 3 hours worth of effort can be ended prematurely. Here's some fun memories of this:

Map28 of a 30nm... this would have been on par with the 30 minute runs.
Map19 of a 30ns... I quit trying this run for several years after this happened. :)

2. Repetition's Revenge

I get really weirded out when this happens... these can occur in runs where the opening movements are almost identical in every attempt. Sometimes I'll just be going through the motions and this thought pops into my head "Wait a sec.. did I just start playing back one of these demos by accident?" I have to stop what I'm doing and make some unrelated movements or just quit the game altogether to verify that I wasn't, in fact, watching a demo and mimicking the movements. Ugh.

3. Doom just hates me sometimes

Not a lot of background to this, but Doom does crash sometimes, although very rarely, and for me it's been late in a run. I've had this happen on map15 of a 30nm (visplane overflow I think) and map26 of a 30ev in evilution (not even a message here, just a scrambled screen and bombed back to windows).


I'll share any more of this crap if I think of any, but if this thread has a future, feel free to add to it. Also... in light of this topic, I'd like to share this popular quote set from #nightmare2's quote bot, "The Joy Of Dooming." On location at pp31, AdamW demonstrates how fun recording can be... maybe.

(#218) (The joy of dooming part1) [21:54] <AdamW> gah [22:08] <AdamW> GRAH [22:08] <AdamW> grrrr [22:28] <AdamW> man [22:28] <AdamW> that was a fast one :( [22:38] <AdamW> oh for god's sake [22:38] <AdamW> GRR [22:57] <AdamW> oh my GOD [22:57] <AdamW> I FUCKED UP THE FUCKING RJ

(#219) (The joy of dooming part2)[22:58] <AdamW> ARG [23:43] <AdamW> arggggg [00:12] <AdamW> IT HAPPENED AGAIN [00:12] <AdamW> i hate this game [00:13] <AdamW> *cries* [00:14] <AdamW> EVIL FUCKING GAME [01:22] <AdamW> FUCK's sake [01:23] <AdamW> i'm gonna break something soon

(#220) (The joy of dooming part3) <[NM]AdamW> WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO <[NM]AdamW> WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO# <[NM]AdamW> wOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH *[NM]AdamW dances <[NM]AdamW> finally, finally, finally fucking got it * [NM]AdamW backs the demo up * [NM]AdamW backs it up again <[NM]AdamW> i'm NOT losing this one to an extension mistake

[Grazza]

Nice idea for a topic. :)

Regarding "1. Q Proximity" (sounds like a Star Trek episode), thankfully I've never ruined a run in this way on the rare occasions when I've recorded with Doom2.exe. However, I have got Q set as "Quit" in Prboom (brings up the "Press Y to Quit" dialogue) so I can dump a failed attempt a bit more quickly. Quite often I hit Q and immediately realize that I'm not dead and the monsters have actually let me through (etc.). By the time I resume, of course, I've wasted a vital moment, and they've closed in again. OK, that's just my own stupidity of course. I guess you could temporarily disable the Q key for long runs.

"2. Repetition's Revenge". Hell yes. Sometimes I've got as far as trying to rename the new lmp before realizing there wasn't one. I don't do this quite as often as I used to though, and I don't recall ever having done so with a demo lasting more than a minute. Perhaps most embarrassingly though, I've sometimes retained the thought "Hmm, that's twice I've managed that time in quick succession - I should be able to improve it quite easily".

I managed to waste an hour or so's attempts recently by leaving the .lmp extension in the command line. (I decided to switch from prboom to Doom2.exe for this particular run, copied the command line, and forgot to delete the .lmp. Now, I make sure I never have the .lmp extension in my batch files.)

As for "The Joys of Dooming", I find tricky pacifist runs can be quite a strain on the vocal chords. I swore so much and so loudly trying to record CChest2 map09 Pacifist that I nearly lost my voice for a while (and I think I scared the cat - it was giving me funny looks anyway). You know how it goes: for once all the difficult stuff has gone well, and then an imp just lodges itself in your way, and no force on earth can move it, etc., etc.

I always make a point of zipping a successful attempt immediately, just in case I do something idiotic and somehow delete it. I did manage to overwrite a text-file recently - no big deal, you'd think, but this was a long and technical one that had taken me about 40 minutes.

I find cats can be quite a problem when recording, and in fact are the main reason why I rarely attempt lengthy demos. The black cat is capable of making such loud meows that he can even ruin a demo attempt from outdoors. And the white cat is liable to jump up on the keyboard (or on my lap, or behind me on the chair if I lean forward to stop him getting on my lap...).

[TheHappySpoon]

I rarely ever piss myself by hitting Q accidently. This is mostly due to my key layout:

J = Forward
M = Backwards
H = Strafe Right
F = Strafe Left

Space = Open Doors

Left Mouse = Fire
Right Mouse = Strafe On

I recently decided to readd my ST50 hooks. And laughed when I found (after looking at my old 2002 config file that I had chosen the exact same keys now).

R = Turn Right
, = Turn Left

I also rarely swear. The most I ever played Doom straight was 5 hours, and I was so tense that my eye was twitching. Every time I nicked a wall the wrong way the tenson built up. I think if someone would have touched me, I would have literally exploded on them.

No, seriously.

Turn around, and explode.

Game over.

Fortunately I decided that self termination ocelot style was not the best route to go, took a break, came back 10 minutes later and nailed the run almost effortlessly.

Practice rules.

[Mogul]

TheHappySpoon said:

The most I ever played Doom straight was 5 hours, and I was so tense that my eye was twitching.

Funny you should mention this. I remember Thanksgiving 1995 (or maybe 95), I didn't even eat with my family. I just played DOOM all day long. And yeah, when I was finally finished, my eye was twictching uncontrollably and I even had real blisters. (before my mouse and keys days)

[Kristian Ronge]

Oh, don't get me started, throughout the years I've found countless wierd and wonderful ways to screw up. Small sample:

1. It Ain't Over Til It's Over. When I do a run over and over, I tend to terminate attempts quickly so as not to waste time. If I get stuck somewhere early on, or miss a switch, e.g., then there's no point in continuing... right? Except that often, right after I press ESC, the monsters magically move out of the way, or it turns out I *did* hit that switch, but didn't hear it...

2. Hard Part's Easy, Easy Part's Hard. If there's a run wherein 90% is plain sailing and there's a hard trick or jump, rest assured that whenever I do make the trick or jump, I screw up something completely trivial at another part (passing a sole imp in a pretty wide corridor, etc.). And when the trivial part goes perfectly, I of course miss the trick...

3. Overwriting Attempts. Not too common, but it's happened. I have also accidentally deleted attempts. I use cmd for PrBoom (and, earlier, ZDoom recording) and I usually scroll through commands with the up and down arrow. So, unvariably, sometimes you delete a perfectly good demo, or overwrite it. Argh! There's nothing I hate more...

4. Not Recording. It happens once in a while that I do something good while not recording, and then when I start recording I can't repeat it (or I can, but with much worse times). I've made a habit of recording everytime I play, even if it's just casual playing...

5. Autopilot. When I make a run over and over, I start to get "used to" how the map plays, and I start playing some sections like a zombie (or as if I'm on "autopilot"). Say there's a room with some chaingunners where I *usually* -- 95 attempts of 100 -- have low health; then I'd normally stop and clear that room out with the RL or something. Now, if I'm on "autopilot" this means I'll deal with that room exactly the same even if I come into it with 200/200 and don't need to. This can cost a lot of time...

Great topic. :-)

[TheHappySpoon]

Kristian Ronge said:

Oh, don't get me started, throughout the years I've found countless wierd and wonderful ways to screw up. Small sample:

1. It Ain't Over Til It's Over. When I do a run over and over, I tend to terminate attempts quickly so as not to waste time. If I get stuck somewhere early on, or miss a switch, e.g., then there's no point in continuing... right? Except that often, right after I press ESC, the monsters magically move out of the way, or it turns out I *did* hit that switch, but didn't hear it...

I prefer to play runs out until I get a few solid exits, because practice is practice, and there is no point in optimizing the first bit if you're going to do horribly for the second bit.

When I already have a few exits and I'm fully comfortable with the run as a whole, that's when I start doing that.

[Anima Zero]

Fun little topic. I have my own round of bloopers/screw-ups/funny moments/anger moments as well...

Ways I've screwed up runs---

1. Dodging Cyberdemon Rockets= Doesn't happen too often, but sometimes when I'm recording on a level with cybers in them, I sometimes strafe right into one of its rockets. Not a nice way to end a good run. Sometimes I even have more than enough time to dodge one of their rockets, but stupidly decide not to dodge for some reason. Hell, I even dodge the rocket sometimes, but lovingly decide to move right into where I will take lots of splash dmg, ending the run most likely.

2. Missed Jumps= Yeah, I've sometimes screwed up even simple jumps when trying to record. Hated that when it happened, as it usually meant needing to end the run since it would look ugly otherwise.

3. BFG'ing Cybers= Mental note to self: Trying to BFG cybers at extremely close range (AKA right in their faces) is a bad idea when they aren't infighting with other enemies.

4. Enemies Hate Me!= Yeah, sometimes the enemies form the perfect barrier or decide to go all dull-minded and not infight with other enemies. It sucks when its a speedrun and I've almost finished the level, but then the above happens, messing that all up. Swearing follows after that.

5. Dying after a very long run= Just a case of totally botching the end of a 30 minute+ run and dying. KS map 29 is a good example of that.

Runs that have made me swear two times over in my head and made me a better swearer overall---

1. HR2 map 25 and 26 UV-Speed. Words can't describe how much anger I had trying to do these. Dying at the wrong times, screwing up rooms, you name it, I probably have done it.

Well, the map 25 one I got in one attempt, but wanted to improve it some more...and yeah, not fun trying to improve it (100+ attempts before I finally got another exit).

HR2 Map 26 OTOH...take map 25's anger, triple it, and that's the result. I was overly satisfied to get through it my first time. Months later when I went back to improve it, I owned the level without much trouble at all. Strange eh?

2. KS map 24 UV-Max. Alright, now take HR2 Map 26, double the swearing, add lots of anger, you get the picture. Many runs that looked good ended up getting stopped thanks to doing #1 in my "Ways I screw runs"...3/4ths of the time. Yeah, that sucked. Even more, you can also apply #2 and #4 to the attempts as well. What's worse...getting a 12:2x for the level, but missing one monster. Son of a *****!!! Took over 120+ attempts after that to finally get a nice looking map 24 run today. Boy was I happy :). Wanted to party and celebrate after that.

[Fredrik]

Kristian Ronge said:

2. Hard Part's Easy, Easy Part's Hard.

This is on par with the second law of thermodynamics.

[Opulent]

Anima Zero said:

1. Dodging Cyberdemon Rockets= Doesn't happen too often, but sometimes when I'm recording on a level with cybers in them, I sometimes strafe right into one of its rockets. Not a nice way to end a good run. Sometimes I even have more than enough time to dodge one of their rockets, but stupidly decide not to dodge for some reason.

I have a bad habit of subconciously trying to hit them... I think this is why I am so susceptible(sp) to Mancubus shots... I actually move to get hit instead of dodging. If that makes any sense...

[Opulent]

another one that I think AdamW. mentioned a long time ago was the dreaded typo in the command-line... so the maxdemo is the 128kb default.
I've lost some HR maxdemos that way, I have to admit. :(

[Anima Zero]

Opulent said:

I have a bad habit of subconciously trying to hit them... I think this is why I am so susceptible(sp) to Mancubus shots... I actually move to get hit instead of dodging. If that makes any sense...

Heh, I know how ya feel. I did my "Strafe perfectly into a cybie rocket" many times today.

Oh, and I updated my list above. Included a little more about me strafing into cybie rockets and a certain KS map that almost made me break the keyboard and go into a swearing frenzy.

[TheHappySpoon]

Anima Zero said:

Heh, I know how ya feel. I did my "Strafe perfectly into a cybie rocket" many times today.

Oh, and I updated my list above. Included a little more about me strafing into cybie rockets and a certain KS map that almost made me break the keyboard and go into a swearing frenzy.

If you break your keyboard, you're dead. If I break my keyboard, I'm merely crippled.

I rest my case on mouse/keyboard superiority.

[Anima Zero]

TheHappySpoon said:

If you break your keyboard, you're dead. If I break my keyboard, I'm merely crippled.

Yeah, that's true. Then I'd get a new one. Simple as that :). Fortunately, the keyboard was not damaged at all and was spared from my wrath ^_^.

[Kristian Ronge]

I just thought of another blunder I sometimes make: Wrong Command Line. Like typing "-respwan" or "--skill 4" (or forgetting to specify skill level altogether, which means it defaults to HMP instead of UV). Sometimes it can take me a long time -- even with some "successful" attempts -- before I realise I have to start all over. Very irritating.

I know this happens to other people, too. It happend to Doug this winter (the "Speedvilla Incident", hehe). ;-)

[Grazza]

Kristian Ronge said:

forgetting to specify skill level altogether, which means it defaults to HMP instead of UV

If you're using a port based on Boom, then you can set

default_skill                 4

in the cfg file, which saves a bit of typing and makes this kind of problem a lot less likely.

I think the most common command-line cock-up I make is on playback, viz. leaving a stray -warp in the command line when copy/pasting and using Budko's Prboom. If the level being warped to isn't one that occurs in the demo, then the program exits without playing back anything.

[cycloid]

i have two batch files, which i set up for a recording setup "d.bat" and "p.bat"

so the contents of d.bat looks something like:

@echo off

 _winmbf\winmbf -skill 4 -warp 01 -file d:/doom/wads/tekbrik.wad -record demo%1 -fullscreen

the %1 inserts the firstparam at the command line so typing

d 101

records "demo101.lmp"

d 102
d 103

etc. until i get an exit, then test it for desyncs with p.bat

@echo off
 _winmbf\winmbf -file d:/doom/wads/tekbrik.wad -playdemo demo%1

thus

p 103

if it plays back then copy, paste, rename, try to beat time. repeat


saves lots of cock ups!