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Vile1011

How to totally screw up gameplay

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I'd say a trap that kills the player with no visible (or any) means of escape, e.g. a massive room which is one big crushing ceiling that activates when the player reaches its center. Traps are supposed to limit the player's possibilities, not remove them entirely!

Another thing is the player entering rooms of 'statues'. All the monsters start facing the wrong way. They stay in once place, jogging on the spot, just waiting for a player to start pumping shells and bullets into their backs. It looks silly and doesn't provide much of a challenge.

Strobe-lighting is good in small doses, but an "epileptic's nightmare" level where the lights constantly strobe can give players massive headaches (I once made a level like this and ended up having to take an asprin because the pulsing lights made my head hurt. That's what "just seeing what it's like" does :P).

You can also ruin gameplay by going overboard with the 'boss' monsters (Cyberdemon, Mastermind). If the player encounters huge opponents around every corner and behind every door and teleporter, they begin to lose their shock value. Fighting them becomes tedious because it'll either take too long (rockets, or worse, Shotgun) or will be too easy (near-infinite BFG ammo). If you save them up, though, they'll really make an impact when they do appear (think about how rarely you faced a 'boss' in Doom II)

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myk said:

What skill? Skill varies greatly... so much that for one player a trap is an instant killer while easy for another.

Having knowledge of a map always makes it easier, and if you want your map to be played more than just once, you'll have to consider prior knowledge when designing it. So any trap that will be challenging the second time the player tries it, will probably have been quite lethal the first time.

On high skill settings there must be traps that need prior knowledge to survive, else the map will be too easy. That's one good reason to develop skill settings well. Not only because the skill of players varies wildly, but also because it will give the wad more value to each player: safer settings for initial casual play without having to resort to excessive saves and cheats, and rougher settings for continued play once the wad becomes familiar.


Remind me never to play any wads by you. If a map is designed well, it shouldn't matter much if you're playing it for the first or fifth time. Avoiding traps should depend on how good you are, not on whether you've seen them before. Where's the challenge in THAT?

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I agree with what Skul posted, except for his take on the 'statues' scenario, which can turn into a neat trap.

Most traps are predictable anyway. In later levels, when you pick up that BFG or key, you should be expecting a trap.

Another case being for greedy players. If you continue picking up weapons and items just because you can, you should be fighting more monsters than you have to.

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Vile1011 said:
If a map is designed well, it shouldn't matter much if you're playing it for the first or fifth time.

So, how are you going to make a map that works the same way no matter how many times you play it?

I got it: you place signs with technical descriptions of each room in the previous rooms or halls!

But yeah, my maps don't and won't have those. Sorry.

Coopersville said:
Most traps are predictable anyway. In later levels, when you pick up that BFG or key, you should be expecting a trap.

I agree. And in the end maps will have loads of these predictable traps if there are many fights. Not to mention that they will certainly be predictable past the first time you play the map, and any designer who values his or her maps will want people to play them again.

Technical balance and attunement to exciting play are crucial in a map, and worth much more than the gimmicks aimed at startling 1st time players (which can be there as an additive, but can't be worth much as main design elements.)

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AgentSpork said:

Extremely Non-Linear Maps.


And extremely linear maps (with linear room-corridor-room flow) are even worse. Nothings is more boring and annoying then being on rails the whole time, whithout any choice where to go next.

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Coopersville said:

I agree with what Skul posted, except for his take on the 'statues' scenario, which can turn into a neat trap.

Most traps are predictable anyway. In later levels, when you pick up that BFG or key, you should be expecting a trap.

Another case being for greedy players. If you continue picking up weapons and items just because you can, you should be fighting more monsters than you have to.


Exactly. It sets a possibility of traps. A good selection would be a line of imps, when you shoot, they come running towards you. But then they teleport. The player wouldn't know where the hell they've gone.

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evilhomerdoomer said:

Exactly. It sets a possibility of traps. A good selection would be a line of imps, when you shoot, they come running towards you. But then they teleport. The player wouldn't know where the hell they've gone.


More than likely, they have teleported behind you.

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Tetzlaff said:

And extremely linear maps (with linear room-corridor-room flow) are even worse. Nothings is more boring and annoying then being on rails the whole time, whithout any choice where to go next.


A map I would consider to be extremely linear would be a single long hallway with an exit at the very end. Linearity doesn't bother me, because, well.. The majority of Doom's maps are very linear. If you have a problem with linear maps, Doom isn't the game you should be playing.

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A highly linear map is one where you have no options about the order in which you visit each area of the map or how you tackle each of them. I wouldn't say that is the case for many of the original maps, or for most of those in the popular megawads. Sure, there are a few where you're on a monorail, but these are generally "concept" maps, and fairly short, and come as an exception between larger maps that allow for a freer interpretation on the part of the player.

chopkinsca said:

More than likely, they have teleported behind you.

There are plenty of other possibilities though. They could teleport into sniper spots or into some room that the player has (possibly) already cleared and so will be a surprise if/when he needs to revisit it. Also, you can have them teleport to some totally secluded spot and then teleport in somewhere more relevant again when the player triggers this. You see this in Kama Sutra map12 (the cyber eventually ends up under a crusher and helps the player get the red key), and HR map18 has a vaguely similar type of set-up with the cyber whose butt you're staring at when the map starts.

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AgentSpork said:

If you have a problem with linear maps, Doom isn't the game you should be playing.


I do have a problem with extremely linear maps, but I still enjoy Doom because most maps actually aren´t linear like that at all. It´s more of a problem with many newer FPS games.
A linear map consists basicly of a chain of room-corridor-room without exploration or freedom of choice for the objectives or battles. Just like Grazza described it, and you can clearly see that the typical Doom map is not linear in that way.

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When I posted, I didn't mean monsters being used in a trap way, I meant monsters just standing with their backs to you with no tricks involved. Now, if they were facing that way for a trap, then it wouldn't screw up gameplay (which is what the topic is about).

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- If you're using chaingunners in hard to reach sniper spots, allow some "shadow" area where the player can be safe. Most early mappers don't realize how more damage a few chaingunners can do.


which is odd... Do they only test it with god mode on or something :/

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A more likely explanation is that some of these complaints are about perfectly well-placed chaingunners (e.g. in Plutonia), and are made by players who lack the know-how, reflexes and/or agility to deal with these situations, and should choose a lower skill level for the time being.

I'm not saying all such complaints are unjustified though, and some maps clearly are released without adequate (or any) playtesting.

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That might be an interesting topic for discussion: how to playtest your own map without getting so bored with it along the way that you can't bring yourself to get the final testing for the release right.

Erik Alm appears to get around this problem by making his maps rather quickly (and by recruiting some extremely talented testers), but that solution may not be available to everyone.

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robindegen said:

which is odd... Do they only test it with god mode on or something :/


Either that, or they didn't playtest. Try putting yourself in a small area with four chaingunners, you may be suprised how quickly they can take you down.

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Grazza said:
Erik Alm appears to get around this problem by making his maps rather quickly (and by recruiting some extremely talented testers), but that solution may not be available to everyone.

Yeah, it's important to have the support of observant testers, since one can miss certain inadequacies through one's idiosyncratic perception.

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Heh, I'll give most any level a chance to be played, at least once just to see it. But how to totally screw up game play? Just think of all the levels with a few giant rooms, missaligned textures, to many monsters stuffed into every room, poor weapon and ammo placement, etc etc...
They might have been funny in 1994, but in 2005 their just annoying...

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myk said:

Yeah, it's important to have the support of observant testers, since one can miss certain inadequacies through one's idiosyncratic perception.


yea but i only have one tester and he's crap. He's a 13 (or 14 i'm not sure) yr old who only wants "fun stuff" in the map like loads of demons. So... i dont have a tester... :( . I think i'm going for another method. Make the map itself first, then fill it with monsters. No testing until this point. But i cant resist playing after building a couple of rooms :(

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A map that ALWAYS gives you a megasphere every 20 seconds (barring some maps in scythe), or better yet, has 10 megaspheres in a small room to 'prepare' you for a single baron of hell

Another peeve of mine is maps that make you backtrack ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ****ING LEVEL without notifying you of this in some way. I mean, going across the map for a yellow key to the yellow door across the map is just fine, provided that you make the trip back interesting via monster caches and maybe some pathways changing... but just flipping a switch that opens a 64 wide 64 high door in a dark room on the other side of the map without notifying you *cough* learn ACS *cough* is just bullshit, and renders the map unplayable and stupid IMO.

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yea, when you're making a map, keep thinking to yourself that others might not be able to find something as easy as you do. You made the map, so you know where EVERYTHING is, even the secrets. Think to yourself, "would a player really find this, or would he spend hours finding it?"

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robindegen said:

Make the map itself first, then fill it with monsters. No testing until this point. But i cant resist playing after building a couple of rooms :(


Hmm, I also have to make sure of something within 20 minutes of building. But I put monsters and ammo as I go along. It makes the level flow more IMO for me.

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i add ammo and weapons the last minute, unless i have some sort of secret area with a bfg or rocketlauncher. I do add keys though (duh :P)

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Skul said:

When I posted, I didn't mean monsters being used in a trap way, I meant monsters just standing with their backs to you with no tricks involved. Now, if they were facing that way for a trap, then it wouldn't screw up gameplay (which is what the topic is about).


It's very difficult to find a situation where back-facing monsters don't form some kind of trap or gameplay crux, though.

For instance: think of a room with a key at the other end, and a bunch of backwards-facing monsters spaced out enough that you can run to the key. There are two main options: either snag the key and try to sprint or fight your way out, or shoot the monsters from behind and start a fight so you can get the key without the "escape" hassle. Either way, you're forced to fight the monsters: which method you choose depends on your gameplay style and what tactics suit the situation best. Do you have enough ammo and health to take them head-on, or will you be forced to zip through the monsters and hope you can get out with the key in time to not get killed?

In practical terms, every backwards-facing monster between you and wherever you're going presents this choice. Monsters that meet you head-on basically force a fight (or, in some situations, an escape), but any backwards facing monster you meet gives you two (or sometimes more) tactical options. At the very least, it can be boiled down to, "Do I want this monster facing me head-on, or do I want him chasing me from behind?" There are situations where either is applicable, especially if you get into a monster-blockade/infighting situation.

While I appreciate a good trap, however, it get irritating when traps are constantly springing on you and it feels like you're getting "punished" for picking up something as minor as an armor bonus. When used intelligently these traps can add a hell of a lot to gameplay, but in excess they're irritating, tiresome and distracting, bringing you out of the game when the 2347th set of HKs springs out of the walls because you picked up a clip lying around. Doom 3 is far guiltier of this than original Doom, but it's started popping up a lot in more modern WADs. It's another example of how gameplay aspects should be balanced and managed well.

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Ubik said:

Doom 3 is far guiltier of this than original Doom, but it's started popping up a lot in more modern WADs. It's another example of how gameplay aspects should be balanced and managed well.


so true, you're just walking, everything seems to be ok, then you pick something up and you're flooded with monsters. The only "trap" i liked is where the floor goes down in the slime and becomes slime (so you have to walk fast on it, or chose another route). Another one i like is when you pick up something, the lights go out (like in E1M3 i think it was)

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Jimi said:

The monsters popping out of the ceiling? Tell me how, me wants to know!

Traps are fun to make, but it's not fun to get trapped in and fade. Just like making that noise, but when someone else does it... oooh.. how annoying it is!

Hexen has monsters appear to come crashing in down through ceiling windows in a map.

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Grazza said:

That might be an interesting topic for discussion: how to playtest your own map without getting so bored with it along the way that you can't bring yourself to get the final testing for the release right.

Erik Alm appears to get around this problem by making his maps rather quickly (and by recruiting some extremely talented testers), but that solution may not be available to everyone.

I'm usually one of maybe five total playtesters of my maps, half of which arent from here. :(

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robindegen said:

probably just a sector effect

No, it's scripting.

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