Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Fredrik

Random demo ideas

Recommended Posts

* One weapon only (beat Doom 2 using only the rocket launcher)
* 100% kills with as few shots as possible (including punches, disallowing chainsaw)
* 0% kills
* 0% items
* Destroy all barrels
* Backwards running only
* ...

Share this post


Link to post

those are crazy ideas!

Lemmings and MMH runs can actually be fun to record(depending upon the map of course)
It's funny to me how 'Strolling' is kind of like DOOM3... you could design a map with strolling in mind, just have 1 monsters per room, etc...
ssg-only is always fun.

* kill only non-humans. Iwad maps would be interesting.... maybe. :)

A wild coop mod: write a port that allows the players to spawn at random places on the map instead of at the pre-determined spawn-spots. Only would work with certain maps though, but I like the idea.

Share this post


Link to post

Well, playing "coop" with -deathmatch or -altdeath would be kind of like having random player starts. They don't vary but you start in odd locations.

Share this post


Link to post

Opulent said:
* kill only non-humans. Iwad maps would be interesting.... maybe. :)


Yes, I thought of it some time ago, I call it "altruist".

I have thought of numerous novelty categories over the years. A few examples:

  • Sherlock. UV, 100% secrets (or maximum possible), no restricition of kills. Simply an UV equivalent to NM100S.
  • Anti-Sherlock, or Watson. Much more interesting -- UV, 0% secrets (or minimum possible) required. Can make some maps that are trivial with modern routes become VERY hard. The lack of ammo could be a problem, for instance.
  • Maniac. Move forward and keep fire button pressed continuously. No switching of weapons may ever occure. Put in another way, all tics in LMPC (except for a few in the start, say 1 second, because of varying initial reaction time) must have GF and FW.
    I have completed some very easy maps in this style, but it is hard. You must make sure never to run over a rocket launcher, for example. And you run out of ammo quickly... I should mention that I didn't think of this, I found it in a text file accompanying a WAD or a .lmp somewhere.
  • Wall hugger. There's a well known heuristic, that if you ever get lost in a maze, you should hug the left (or right) wall, and move forward, ALWAYS maintaining contact with the wall. You're guaranteed to eventually get out of the maze. Apply it to Dooming, and what you get is "Wall Hugger". The player must at the start, without any unjustified delay, seek a wall and then follow that wall, never losing contact with it. Leaving the wall is only acceptable if there's an obstacle in the way, or level progression is impossible without leaving it (such as having to press a switch in the middle of a room). The player must then as soon as possible return to the wall.
I compiled a list somewhere, I'll try to dig it up.

EDIT: Didn't find it. :-( But I remember some from memory:
  • Good Sport. (named after the "Good Sport Syndrome") The player must not pick up any medikit, stimpack, health potion, soulsphere or megasphere (unless it is absolutely unavoidable). Armors and armor bonuses are okay. This style is rather challenging, regardless of map, especially if combined with the -fast parameter.
  • Indirect Max. 100% kills (or as many as you can get) without hurting monsters directly. Allowed are infighting, activating crushers, making barrels explode. Intentional telefragging also allowed.
  • Clueless. Play any other style really (speed, max, -fast, pacifist, etc.), without using any of the following: strafe-50, trick jumps (including rocket jumps), switch tricks, glides (bar glides and monster glides). The idea is to go through the map using the "intended" route and do things (like using switches) as "intended". For reference, see almost any COMPET-N demo dated pre-1996. ;-)
  • Predator style. 100% kills (or the maximum you can get), but the player may only use weapons 2-7 while using the invisibility powerup, and can only use the (berserk) fist and chainsaw at all other times. Another restriction is that monsters, as far as is possible, must be killed one by one. For maps without the invisibility sphere this is basically Lewis style (since it's hard to kill two or more monsters at the same time with the chainsaw and fist!).

    And finally (not so serious):

  • Ronge style. The player must make a good run, in any style, up to a certain point, and then suddenly make something very clumsy and/or stupid (such as missing a trick, falling into an inescapable pit just before exiting, or blowing up a barrel to close to you) which leads to a squandered attempt/death. Not many Ronge style demos exist, because people tend to overwrite them or delete them... ;-D
Grazza has mentioned Crab style and speed-stroller. Reference here.

There is more discussion on neglected/novelty categories here.

Share this post


Link to post

great list Kristian!
I like the idea of Good Sport... I guess many authors kind of design with this in mind.... take AOTW or something similar.

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks, Doug. :-)

I have recorded some demos in all the styles I listed there; they're all IWAD demos though, so I won't be submitting them to the SDA! ;-)

For example, I made a UV Good Sport -fast on E1M1 back in November. It was surprisingly challenging.

I had literally dozens of styles listed, with all sorts of crazy restrictions. If you ask me, Anti-Sherlock, or Watson style, is the most interesting of all those styles. The 0% secrets restriction can make some maps much harder. WAD authors tend to hide weapons and powerups in secrets.

I just remembered another style I came up with: Venice. The rules are simple: the player must not walk on any nukeage, lava, or water to complete the map. This makes some maps (UDoom E3M6, Doom 2 map 19, map 20) very interesting, because the usual routes are now worthless.

Share this post


Link to post

Here are a few, of varying degrees of silliness and originality:

  • Trickaholic: Use as little of the intended route as possible. As many tricks as possible should be employed to avoid using switches or going through doors or passages that are meant to be on the route. Where you must use parts of the intended route, get monsters to open doors for you if at all possible, and if you must press switches, press them from below/above, from the side or through monsters. Any other weird tricks that can be worked in, should be (e.g. on Kama Sutra map22, you'd want to turn yourself into a zombie before exiting; and in general exiting dead is highly desirable). Obviously, the idea is that the player is so addicted to using tricks that he just can't bear to see any opportunity go to waste.
  • Thumper: Max kills using only the non-berserk fist. There aren't many maps where this is very feasible of course. Doom2 map01 is quite fun though.
  • Ethical law enforcement: You can only use force in retaliation - until a monster has tried to attack you, you may not harm it. Warning shots are allowed. Shouting "drop your weapons, you are under arrest" is not mandatory though.
  • Stuck Key: Play with one of the strafe keys pressed down permanently, and not using the other one.
  • Zombie: Play using a dehacked patch that sets your starting health to zero. I've recorded a few demos of this type, and the results are extremely weird. It's not very Doomy though.
  • Down Boy!: You'll need to use Prboom for this one. Enable the helper dogs but use -complevel 1 (or 3 or 5 for Boom maps). However, I don't think there is any way to record this mode of play and have it play back (without changing the exe), so it kind of falls flat as a demo category.
A few comments on some of the previous suggestions:
  1. Fredrik's "One weapon only (beat Doom 2 using only the rocket launcher)" - would you have special dispensation to use the pistol to shoot essential switches that are necessary to complete a level and can't be activated in any other way?
  2. Kristian's "Indirect Max. 100% kills (or as many as you can get) without hurting monsters directly." - Isn't this similar to Ryback's "Hypocritical Pacifist"?
  3. Kristian's "Clueless" [no tricks] - this is what prompted me to suggest the converse "Trickaholic". I don't know if you watch many Quake demos, but something quite similar was done recently - the ID run, in which the idea was to use no shortcuts (sort of). It was quite entertaining.
  4. Come to think of it, I have done a Crab-style demo - ks25-001 :p
In general, I think the main problem with the really oddball categories (or at least the reason most of them stay oddball) is that they only work well for a small selection of maps, or are too messy to understand or verify.

Share this post


Link to post

Great suggestions there!

Grazza said:
Ethical - You can only use force in retaliation - until a monster has tried to attack you, you may not harm it. Warning shots are allowed. Shouting "drop your weapons, you are under arrest" is not mandatory though.


Very inventive. Sounds like fun!

Fredrik's "One weapon only (beat Doom 2 using only the rocket launcher)" - would you have special dispensation to use the pistol to shoot essential switches that are essential to complete a level and can't be activated in any other way?


I think it's quietly assumed for ANY category that the rules are "generous" in the respect that, if the map cannot be completed without bending the rules slightly, then it's okay to do it. For example an unavoidable (and intentional) telefrag that lies on the route in pacifist (e.g. p4m2 secret exit), not having to kill unreachable monsters in max, and so on.

Kristian's "Indirect Max. 100% kills (or as many as you can get) without hurting monsters directly." - Isn't this similar to Ryback's "Hypocritical Pacifist"?


Yes, it is similar, the only thing that's added is the 100% kills requirement. It's "Hypocritical Pacifist Max", actually. But that name could become too confusing, perhaps?

Kristian's "Clueless" [no tricks] - this is what prompted me to suggest the converse "Trickaholic". I don't know if you watch many Quake demos, but something quite similar was done recently[...]


Don't watch or play Quake at all. Sorry. :-)

But yeah, it is quite entertaining. It would be very interesting to see what times the top players (AdamH, AdamW, Sedlo, Ocelot...) could produce on the oldest routes, without any tricks. Especially interesting for NM demos. Is n4m1 possible without the red keygrab for example?

Come to think of it, I have done a Crab-style demo - ks25-001 :p


I did one of Doom 2 map 1. Very fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Kristian Ronge said:

There's a well known heuristic, that if you ever get lost in a maze, you should hug the left (or right) wall, and move forward, ALWAYS maintaining contact with the wall. You're guaranteed to eventually get out of the maze.


That's not generally true. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Grazza said:

Fredrik's "One weapon only (beat Doom 2 using only the rocket launcher)" - would you have special dispensation to use the pistol to shoot essential switches that are necessary to complete a level and can't be activated in any other way?

Yes.

Share this post


Link to post
Grazza said:

  • Down Boy!: You'll need to use Prboom for this one. Enable the helper dogs but use -complevel 1 (or 3 or 5 for Boom maps). However, I don't think there is any way to record this mode of play and have it play back (without changing the exe), so it kind of falls flat as a demo category.

  • MBF works though, right?

    good categories, I think we've all fallen prey to the Stuck Key mode... if only for a bit. :)

    Share this post


    Link to post

    Except that MBF doesn't (AFAIK) offer a compatibility mode that makes the dogs hostile. (That was the point - the dogs attack the player, meaning that you're constantly on the run from the buggers.)

    Recording demos using the dogs as intended (as helpers) is another possibility though. I haven't tried it, but presumably it works (the MBF demo header info includes an entry for the number of dogs).

    Share this post


    Link to post

    Really strange, but outside of Pacifist and Tyson, I don't think I've tried any extreme deviations from standard play... in fact, in the years I've been with Compet-N or done demos for packs, I've NEVER recorded a -fast or -respawn demo. Oh well. :)

    A funny note, but also until recently, I had NEVER played Ultimate Doom E4M9 from scratch. Never. My only familiarity with the level was the 9 second speedrun and brief passes through the level in the E4NS run. Unusual, having played these games for so long...

    Oh yeah, my first exit was between 4-5 minutes in a mock max attempt. Yay me!

    Share this post


    Link to post

    A couple speedrun ideas by me:

    • Skin of Your Teeth: Start a level in UV with default weapons. Finish it with exactly 1% health. Armor doesn't matter. Since aiming a rocket at a wall makes this too easy, it's disallowed. Finding slime and standing in it is OK, though.
    • Astigmatism: Play a level with low detail mode and smallest window size possible. I'm not sure of a comparable way to do this in source ports.
    • Dyslexic: Turn your monitor upside-down.
    • Ikari Mode: 100% kills and secrets in UV while playing completely in automap. Double-IDDT; zooming is allowed.

    Share this post


    Link to post

    Numbermind said:
    Skin of Your Teeth: Start a level in UV with default weapons. Finish it with exactly 1% health. Armor doesn't matter. Since aiming a rocket at a wall makes this too easy, it's disallowed. Finding slime and standing in it is OK, though.


    HA! Very fun! It reminded me of another category I'd forgotten, which was similar. The object is to exit with as low health as possible. In case of same health percentage (0% is possible by the way! See this, and I even did it by accident, when doing a demo of TNT map 15 for the strolling pack I did with Grazza and Vincent Cataláa) then the lowest time wins.

    I've done a couple of demos like these. Most of them are unintentional, for very hard maps... Drew's Doom 2 map 7 pacifist run (amazing stuff, BTW, watch it if you can) is a SOYT style demo... :-)

    Ikari Mode: 100% kills and secrets in UV while playing completely in automap. Double-IDDT; zooming is allowed.


    Another great idea, though tough (or impossible) to verify.

    EDIT: Fixed links.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Kristian Ronge said:

      And finally (not so serious):

    • Ronge style. The player must make a good run, in any style, up to a certain point, and then suddenly make something very clumsy and/or stupid (such as missing a trick, falling into an inescapable pit just before exiting, or blowing up a barrel to close to you) which leads to a squandered attempt/death. Not many Ronge style demos exist, because people tend to overwrite them or delete them... ;-D

    I'd like to see this kind of demos from other people too, not only my own. Perhaps I should start with it and include some stupid deaths/faults to every new demo from now on - I mean, for a good laugh and not to show you all how low my skills really are.

    I just remember, Adam Williamson included a set of "Ronge style" demos to a Compet-N Plutonia Map31 recording ... I'm checking, please wait ... ah, it is pp31-245!

    EDIT: Kristian, you said "The player must make a good run, in any style, up to a certain point, and then suddenly make something very clumsy and/or stupid". Do you mean that it's the player's plan to do a mistake? I think the best "Ronge style" demos would come by accident while trying a normal recording ;)

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Angus Thermopyle said:

    I'd like to see this kind of demos from other people too, not only my own.

    I sometimes keep a copy of failed attempts - either because they're funny, interesting, or just for reference in case I ever return to the same task. I've put a collection of them here. I can't promise they're good to watch. The "funniest" is probably En04Nfa4, where I realize after teleporting that I had failed to pick up the key. And maybe Bnd8TFa1, where I die while pistoling the final mancubus in a lengthy Tyson.

    Share this post


    Link to post

    One Life Mode

    Fresh warp start on a level and you may pickup anything EXCEPT health.

    Variation on reality, using only one life.

    Share this post


    Link to post

    Thx, Grazza, just downloaded your pack. And started watching: Sc26Nfa1 has a rather tragic ending. Did you manage this meanwhile?

    I think I'll also start such a collection.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Angus Thermopyle said:

    Thx, Grazza, just downloaded your pack. And started watching: Sc26Nfa1 has a rather tragic ending. Did you manage this meanwhile?

    Yeah, actually I'd already got a 0:39. These were attempts to improve over it - which I've never managed to do.

    BTW, I can't remember what was interesting about the Marswar missed monster lmps. Possibly the missed monsters got stuck in some weird ways - I recall I had put some effort into working out a route that should in theory have flushed them all out.

    Don't bother watching the CIC demo at all - it's just an awful early attempt. I've had much better failures on that map.

    If you'd asked this a few days ago, I might have been able to dredge up some other interesting failures. However, I recently emptied the recycle bin, as it was getting a bit clogged up with about 20000 deleted lmps in it.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Searcher said:

    One Life Mode

    Fresh warp start on a level and you may pickup anything EXCEPT health.

    Variation on reality, using only one life.

    That's a cool idea.
    sounds like a good long-term contest. remove all the health from the Iwad and see how far you can make it.
    on Doom2, if the invulnerability wasn't allowed, 8 would be a killer... same with 9 and 10. 12 would require luck.

    Share this post


    Link to post

    Angus Thermopyle said:
    I'd like to see this kind of demos from other people too, not only my own.


    Yes, I'll try to remember it. I think I've included some "hilarious" failed attempts sometimes. Ah, right, I just remembered I did for example include a number of Ronge style demos for my Reality Max of Classic Epsiode E2M1 (see the SDA). :-)

    Jakub Razak (I think?) included a Ronge style demo in a run of HR2 map 27 "Resistance Remains" where he managed to teleport to a place whereto he'd pumped rockets and one hit him right in the face... That was just great...

    I just remember, Adam Williamson included a set of "Ronge style" demos to a Compet-N Plutonia Map31 recording ... I'm checking, please wait ... ah, it is pp31-245!


    Yes! Hilarious stuff!

    Kristian, you said "The player must make a good run, in any style, up to a certain point, and then suddenly make something very clumsy and/or stupid". Do you mean that it's the player's plan to do a mistake? I think the best "Ronge style" demos would come by accident while trying a normal recording ;)


    Um, I didn't really think anyone would be crazy enough to waste a perfectly good attempt on *purpose*... Heh, my original plan for this was unintended mistakes. But as with "Americas Funniest Homevideos", if it is planned, but still hilarious, I would still deem the demo acceptable! ;-)

    Share this post


    Link to post

    Searcher said:
    One Life Mode

    Fresh warp start on a level and you may pickup anything EXCEPT health.

    Variation on reality, using only one life.


    Hey! Rip-off! :-P

    I said:
    Good Sport. (named after the "Good Sport Syndrome") The player must not pick up any medikit, stimpack, health potion, soulsphere or megasphere (unless it is absolutely unavoidable). Armors and armor bonuses are okay. This style is rather challenging, regardless of map, especially if combined with the -fast parameter.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Guest
    This topic is now closed to further replies.
    ×