Who can NOT play D3/RoE?

[kristus]

Actually, i know several people who got seriously scared and disturbed by Doom3, I have a friend that's called "Grim death" as a kind of joke (to be exact he's called "Grymme döds" but it's swedish and most of you don't understand that :p )and he played Doom3 and was like a wreck after playing it.

I loved Doom3. Not nearly as much as I loved System Shock 2, but they are two completely different games and even if they have many similarities, I find it extremely hard to compare the two. I've experimented some with Doom3, with the method of.
While I pushed myself to a more aggressive style and also another where I made sure to notice details and shadows. And I noticed that this really helped the experience. Both of them. When I pushed myself I got andrenaline and the game got seriously aggressive, and when I concentrated on details and such I got really into the atmosphear and even found it hard to breathe.

The biggest issue for me with Doom3 is that there's an overwhelming supply of ammunition and health. So even if you sometimes get pummeled by monsters and thus dies. You never actually have to work hard for your survival. I always had 90% of my max ammo in my backpack. I could chuck grenades around corners like it was nothing to it. IMO you should have very few grenades. So you had to be careful where you placed them etc.

If I only had ammo for 1 big monster left, I am sure I'd be a lot more weary about walking around that corner than if I had enough to bring down all of hell's armies in one go.

[Tetzlaff]

NiGHTMARE said:

Yes, but Doom 3 looks far more like SS2 than it does Quake 2, Jedi Academy, Elite Force 2, Halo, or indeed any other game with "metallic future bases" that I've ever played (which is quite a few ;)).

Of course not Quake2, it had that rusty industrial base style as the main theme.

Many of the UT2003/04 maps have that clean metallic style similar to SS2 and Doom3. I think it´s more of a general futuristic style, not apllied to one particular game.

[Wobbo]

Tetzlaff said:

Stop claiming that your opinion is general consensus. I could give you a dozen examples of non-fanboy discussion sites where the majority unsurprisingly thinks Doom3 is scary, but we wouldn´t get anywhere.

Your only real argument as I can see it is that the monster closets where overused in Doom3 and that because of that it wouldn´t be scary.

And don´t start with System Shock 2... SS2 is one of the best first-person games ever

Also, how would Doom3 be a rip-off of System Shock 2? Just because it also used audio logs? Come on...

Its not my opinion, its a perfectly clear idea of the general gaming ocmmunity including these boards and even id fanbase sites - let alone people who dont play FPSes only: LordFlathead said it best when he said the first Imp jumping out at him was scary, the 239067th time not so much. Go to any random general gaming site, youll see the excact same critiques of doom3, their my opinion and about 400,000 other people's opinions as well

its not that monster closets were overused, its that GOOD GAMEPLAY IDEAS were underused - and by underused I mean NOT USED AT ALL. As ive said before both doom3 and HL2 are 'interactive' movies - hyper linear tunnels attempting to pass off as First person shooters

and about System shock 2, Stop lying to yourself, we could go on for YEARS discussing the elements doom3 rips off from SS2 - its almost as if id was doing it on purpose seeing how many

1. Metallic base being eaten by organic matter
2. contact emails by people begging you to rescure them
3. use of emails and logs for door code.. entire paradigm stolen from system shock
4. Use of NPCs that have technical jobs (like the miners, various scientists) who are unaware of the big picture, to advance story indirectly
5. Lighting - dont give me the tech crap, SS2 used lighting symbolically and for gameplay purposes - they just happened to do a better job with infererior technology
6. Human characters making pacts with the enemy
7. Being guided by a leader who is not trustworhty and eventually turns to the other side
8. Massive unethical corporation with no care for human concerns

its true that SS2 did all these much better than D3 did, but that doesnt change the fact

I suppose there is some excuse for all these, just like how the grabber from ROE isnt ripped off from HL2's Gravity gun. Suuuuuuure.

[robindegen]

about that last bit... yea they even work quite the same. Only you cant keep picking things up :(

[Tetzlaff]

Wobbo said:

Its not my opinion, its a perfectly clear idea of the general gaming ocmmunity including these boards and even id fanbase sites - Go to any random general gaming site, youll see the excact same critiques of doom3, their my opinion and about 400,000 other people's opinions as well

Your random general gaming sites give Doom3 a pretty high avarage rating of 88% http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages4/469881.asp

its not that monster closets were overused, its that GOOD GAMEPLAY IDEAS were underused - and by underused I mean NOT USED AT ALL.

It´s obvious that you only want to bash Doom3. I´m open for a serious discussion about the issues of Doom3, but it doesn´t make sense when you claim Doom3 has no good gameplay at all, which is so obviously wrong.


Now to all your accusations of plagiarising System Shock 2:

1. Metallic base being eaten by organic matter

This has already been in Doom1 (episode 2, realised with textures back then), and also I´m sure you really know that Doom3´s particular style of living flesh fused with architecture was developed in id´s own Quake 3 Arena and is, if anything, a reference to that.

2. contact emails by people begging you to rescure them

What a blatant rip!! Nobody can use this except games in the System Shock universe!!

3. use of emails and logs for door code.. entire paradigm stolen from system shock

Maybe, but then SS also stole Doom´s shotgun and anything... Good gameplay ideas deserve to be used by other games as well, there is nothing wrong with it and it happens all the time. You don´t accuse any games for "ripping" Threewaves CTF mod for Quake1, aren´t you?

4. Use of NPCs that have technical jobs (like the miners, various scientists) who are unaware of the big picture, to advance story indirectly

A good story technique that wasn´t invented by System Shock, and again I neither can see what the problem would be with this, nor that Doom3 used it in a less good way.

5. Lighting - dont give me the tech crap, SS2 used lighting symbolically and for gameplay purposes - they just happened to do a better job with infererior technology

I kinda agree with the last sentence, since in my opinion System Shock 2 is the overall better game, but again, this doesn´t make Doom3 a bad game.

6. Human characters making pacts with the enemy

LOL...I can´t be bothered to name hundreds of legends, literature and movie examples for this classic topic. SS2 didn´t invent it.

7. Being guided by a leader who is not trustworhty and eventually turns to the other side

Again...
On a side note, System Shock 2 had a different setup: Shodan wasn´t really trustworthy right from the start, she only offered you cooperation in face of a mutual enemy, and the Many were openly hostile anyways.

8. Massive unethical corporation with no care for human concerns

One of the most popular topics of futuristic First-Person Shooters, the massive evil corporation... SinTEC (SiN), Cabalco (Blood 2), Mishima Corp. (Daikatana), Ultor (Red Faction), Liandri (Unreal Series) are just a few wellknown examples from the top of my head.
On the other hand, the UAC isn´t really that kind of an unethical corporation. They are dubious, but not really evil. Betruger is just one of the scientists.

[PK4EVA]

Tetzlaff said:

It´s obvious that you only want to bash Doom3. I´m open for a serious discussion about the issues of Doom3, but it doesn´t make sense when you claim Doom3 has no good gameplay at all, which is so obviously wrong.

Well, doesn't bashing Doom 3 have some suggestions for Doom 4 (it'll happen, just wait) as well?

Like when someone says : "D3 uses too many cheap scare tactics!".
I'd interpret this as : "D4 should use less of the cheap cat-scares and use more of the real-life psychological 'Silent Hill/System Shock 2' scariness".

[sniperfrommars1]

The base being consumed by organic matter comes from ALiens which we all know has alot to do with a game we call DOOM. Nuff said about that if your in a first person shirter the first doom game pretty much covers ALL those bases and if you think doom3 is ripping a game off its more than likely ripping off its predecessors. Anyways is it just me or was ROE a far better gaming experience than doom3?

[XXoXX]

This discussion could go on forever.......

[SirBardCat]

those ravenholm zombies in hl2 kind of gave me that akward feeling in my chest; primarily due to those hideous moans. i got over it after killing like, two of them, then i just wanted to be done with that stupid map.

i don't really see any point in hating one game or another just because that's "what you do." It's sort of like the democratic and republican thing; it doesn't matter who's right, you're just too prideful of something that you had nothing to do with to admit when you're incorrect.

in any case, doom 3 and half life 2 own my ass. both have features unique to them, which makes them fun i guess.

[Janderson]

sniperfrommars1 said:

The base being consumed by organic matter comes from ALiens which we all know has alot to do with a game we call DOOM.

I'm pretty sure it had more to do with the Redweed which consumed London in War of the Worlds.

I think that people who think D3/HL2 are too linear should make their own non-linear versions :) Go on!