Reading this article causes dry heaves

[Bucket]

Kansas City clinic closed as grisly house of horrors
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44779

[Job]

Just another reason why abortion shouldn't be legally allowed for.

[Technician]

Hmmm. Odd. Very odd. I never liked the idea of abortions. Although my friends consider it the same vally as a girls period.

[insertwackynamehere]

i've heard of people eating placentas because its the only meat a vegetarian can eat seeing as how nothing was harmed in making it.

[Ichor]

So, is he a cannibal?

[AndrewB]

Only if the things are human, which I can't see why they wouldn't be.

[Fredrik]

Why not? It's a reasonable way to conserve energy.

[myk]

Job said:
Just another reason why abortion shouldn't be legally allowed for.

Why would this not apply to any sort of medical intervention? Any sick enough surgeon could eat any part of his or her patients. In cases where abortion is illegal practically all abortion clinics offer inadequate services. And that's one of the main reasons for legalizing abortion; because it'll happen anyway in a worse way if it's not allowed. There will possibly be less abortions, but all the abortions will be done without the proper support or inspection. When there is a demand for something and it's not taken care of, you get black market economics.

[Job]

myk said:

Why would this not apply to any sort of medical intervention? Any sick enough surgeon could eat any part of his or her patients. In cases where abortion is illegal practically all abortion clinics offer inadequate services. And that's one of the main reasons for legalizing abortion; because it'll happen anyway in a worse way if it's not allowed. There will possibly be less abortions, but all the abortions will be done without the proper support or inspection. When there is a demand for something and it's not taken care of, you get black market economics.

You're absolutely correct. But perhaps if legislation could vouch against the practice of abortion, there would be a broader awakening to the immorality of it all. Of course, that's simply a pipe dream.

[Fredrik]

It is convenient to bring up the word "immorality" when you have no real argument.

[Job]

Fredrik said:

It is convenient to bring up the word "immorality" when you have no real argument.

It's convenient to troll when you have nothing useful to contribute to a discussion. Oh, and allow me to say, "Oh noes immorality? I forgot moral relativitiy and everyone's right to do whatever they wish as long as it doesn't impede the happiness of others, blah, blah, blah."

Numbermind said:

I'm tired of the hypocrisy of people who never hesitate to let everyone know how futile it is to have an opinion. It's as if you're convinced idle talk would still exist if there weren't defeatists like you limpdicking all over every constructive debate and good intention.

Heh, rest assured I've got better things to do than try to convert internet mongs to a particular stance. I was just saying my peace on the topic and several people took the chance to call me on it. Or deride me. Whichever you prefer.

[Bucket]

Fredrik said:

It is convenient to bring up the word "immorality" when you have no real argument.

Damn, you sure told him. Let's wait and see if he's a sore loser so we can be certain he was the only one who gave two shits about the subject at hand.

I'm tired of the hypocrisy of people who never hesitate to let everyone know how futile it is to have an opinion. It's as if you're convinced idle talk would still exist if there weren't defeatists limpdicking all over every constructive debate and good intention.

[The Flange Peddler]

Whatever the answer to the (im)morality or (il)legality of abortion is, the fact that some crazy loon took to eating fetuses has no bearing on the matter.

[Ralphis]

Job I support your opinion and view. Immoral is the correct term.

Also, this is one of the most vile articles I've ever read

[Scuba Steve]

Hay guys, I heard a story about a guy who ate people in his basement. I think basements should be illegal because then nobody could eat people in their basements!

[killingblair]

Honestly, this deserves the "WTF?!" sticker.

[Fredrik]

Job said:

It's convenient to troll when you have nothing useful to contribute to a discussion.

There should be a version of Godwin's law to cover trolling accusations.

Oh, and allow me to say, "Oh noes immorality? I forgot moral relativitiy and everyone's right to do whatever they wish as long as it doesn't impede the happiness of others, blah, blah, blah."

Reference to morality is meaningless for that very reason. If you think it is immoral, say why.

Numbermind said:

I'm tired of the hypocrisy of people who never hesitate to let everyone know how futile it is to have an opinion.

It is futile if you have the opinion for no reason!

[Job]

Fredrik said:

Reference to morality is meaningless for that very reason. If you think it is immoral, say why.

That's true, a person should have a reason. But you know as well as I do that if we get mired down in moral definition and the "when is a human being really a human being, etc" argument, this thread'll be flamebait. So we can just settle this right now by me saying I don't agree with abortion for some intangible, wishy-washy reasons and you'd rather defend a person's right to choose because you're cold-hearted and calculating about the value of human life. : P Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[Fredrik]

Job said:

you'd rather defend a person's right to choose because you're cold-hearted and calculating about the value of human life.

Right, though you can defend the same right without being cold-hearted and calculating like me.

[Bucket]

Fredrik said:

It is futile if you have the opinion for no reason!

It would've been safer for you to say it's "futile to impose an opinion if you have no working agenda". That way, just about any person I can think of fails it. Thinking it's possible to "have an opinion for no reason" tells me that you spend too much time online replying to retards who shoot off their mouths, when you should be exposing yourself to individuals' life events/lines of reasoning that lead to such a stance.

[Fredrik]

Numbermind said:

you spend too much time online replying to retards

Then we agree.

you should be exposing yourself to individuals' life events/lines of reasoning that lead to such a stance.

That's what I'm trying to do. I'm asking Job to share his line of reasoning, but he steadily refuses.

[Sporku]

Scuba Steve said:

Hay guys, I heard a story about a guy who ate people in his basement. I think basements should be illegal because then nobody could eat people in their basements!

Ya, and I also heard a story about a guy who kept human heads in his refridgerator. Refridgerators should be illegal because then nobody could keep human heads in them

[MacWadMaker]

That is totally nasty!!! This person is obviously sick in the head. Good to know they got caught 'cause my sister is 5-6 weeks pregnant and moving to Kansas City with her Husband in a month and a half.

[SulfurOccult]

the story is fake. this is the same site that published the story about a lion killing twenty-something midgets in a cagefight-esque arena in some african country, which i later saw was confirmed as a 100% ficticious story.

[AndrewB]

Fredrik said:

Right, though you can defend the same right without being cold-hearted and calculating like me.

Human life is grossly overvalued. We are, after all, the most destructive parasitic virus that this world has ever seen.

Also, if something can't feel pain, I don't give half a crudroll what happens to it. However, I DO care about those capable of suffering.

[Janderson]

Seconded. Human life is no more important than the animals we herd.

Btw, since we’re talking abortion clinic these foetuses aren’t exactly wanted are they? But seriously, if eating these foetuses is wrong then so is eating placentas. Of course as everyone knows most animals do this to regain nutrients used in creating a child and are excellent for enhancing breast milk. Rajanna’s biggest crime is not giving his customers the foetuses to eat. I say this because the nutrients in this tiny corpse could act as a very very small placenta. /Argument falls apart.

[Sharessa]

Well on the one hand, there is no logical reason againss his actions. Meat is meat after all. On the other hand, theres also no real logical argument slaughtering all the Bengal Tigers in India to eliminate their threat to the lives of the locals there.

Of course, this article is probably purely fictional propaganda fabricated by someone on the side of the pro-theocratic movement, or someone looking to spark their ire.

On the argument of abortion, the debate should not be over weather it is immoral or moral, but rather over what the rammifications of it's illegalization on our society are. First of all, it is a violation of women's rights to let it be illegalised. If a woman wishes to chose not to become a mother or not get butchered into sterilization (or to death) in some back-alley clinic, she should be granted that right.

Secondly, as I just mentioned, the rammifications of having it illegal also mean that, like prostitution and drug usage, it will continue albiet in much more unhealthy and socialy depreciating situations.

Thirdly, an unwanted child is a burdon upon the mother, her family, and possibly the fathr and his family. The sudden unexpected stress and change an infant brings to it's parent's world can destabilize their emotional and financial wellbeing. This in turn will be brought against the child causing it exceptional stress (you try growing up poor with dysfunctional parents), creating yet another member of this nations growing number of career criminals.

Fourth, the stress this causes on society as a whole takes it's toll. There is the whol issue of overpopulation putting a strain on it's resources, inevitibly causing more strife. Then there are all the mothers on welfare because they had an unexpected child. Odd that the people who complain the loudest about welfare also complain the loudest against abortions.

And always remember, it's PRO-CHOICE, not Pro-Abortion. We who are Pro-Choice believe that women should always have the CHOICE. We are not advocating that everyone abort all their children or even that everyone under a certain age or in a certain situation should abort. This country was founded on freedom, and banning such a basic right as choice of such a major event in one's life flies in the face of liberty. If a girlfriend of mine or my sister were ever to concieve an unwanted child, I don't know what I'd say. It's not a choice one makes likely, and such a decision will affect a person for the rest of their lives.

Lastly, consider this scenario:

A 15 year old girl suddenly finds herself pregnant. Her options are to...

A) Carry on with the pregancy, having to drop out of school to care for the child. The father, being 15 as well, has no money to contribute and may freak out and try to get as far away as possible. She's then doomed to a life of poverty because all the money she makes (and she makes very little, not even havign a degree in high school) goes to the support of her child unless she marries the first guy who actualy wants to marry a high school dropout mother. Her child grows up destitute and emotionaly shattered, possibly not even knowing his father. He will probably either become a career criminal or knock up his first girlfriend, continuing the cycle.

B) She decides to have an abortion and learns from her mistake. She graduates from high school and marries a nice guy. They settle down and have kids ten years later. Byt his time they have enough money to buy a nice house in the suburbs and give their children a good education. Their kids grow up with a loving mother and father, possibly a little wiser having heard of their parents mistakes in the past.

Now honestly, what would you choose?

[Janderson]

But then again person B) is killing a little fellow inside of her. I don't think she'll just get over it easily it might even scar her for life when she realizes what she has destroyed. ..... unless of course she's cumbrian where the abortion clinic is a weekly fixture for her. *sting*

[DemilinX]

Sometimes I cry after jerking one off. That sperm *could've* been used to fertilize my girlfriend's egg. It *could've* been a life. In some regards it is almost like committing half an abortion in theory. The other rough area in my life is that time of the month when my girlfriend has her period. That absolutely kills me. It confirms any doubts I might've had that we've prevented life from taking place when it should've happened according to the Holy Book. It's a great guilt to deal with yet somehow I continue on. I'm not feeling too great after thinking about ending what *could've* been life. I have to go jerk off to feel better about myself now.

[Submerge]

Hamsters eat their babies. That doesn't make them immoral. Yet, this person eats fetuses, and that makes him immoral. Why? Because we're not hamsters. That's why. People can argue all they want until they are blue in the face, but it boils down to that. We give a shit, because it's another intelligent human being doing this. We like to think that we're better than most animals, so we let this behavior shock and appal us. I know I am. I'm absolutely disgusted by this man's actions. Despite our 'intelligent' and 'civilized' behavior, humans are just another animal, and compared to other animals, we're damn savage ones.

The fact that this man's actions are immoral is merely my opinion, not fact. How can one say that another person is sane, when you may be insane by someone else's standards?

And my opinion is that abortion should be legal. It's an active choice made by the mother. Dan's argument above is a good one, IMO. Certainly, an aborted child never gets a chance to succeed, but he is spared failure as well.

P.S. anyone ever beat Silent Hill 3?