How hard would it be to make Doom95 fully compatible with Windows XP?

[Gibaholic]

well ive never programmed before or anything but I was wondering how hard would it be to make Doom95 fully compatible with windows xp? what I mean is would it be hard for me to make a source port thats exactly like Doom95 only instead itll be called DoomXP. You know so you can use the mouse and everything and it would be the original Doom. No mouse look or anything exactly like Doom95 only fully compatible with windows xp. So how difficult would that be?

[Darkhaven]

You'd need access to (at the least) the Linux Doom code or a direct port to Windows' code (I suggest searching the forums for BadDoom), and maybe a reference to converting that into Windows-applicable code (ZDoom and WinDoom come to mind). It wouldn't be that hard to do overall, maybe a basic understanding of C and C++ would help.

[Grazza]

The source code for Doom95 was never released, so anything that involves altering the program would be rather difficult, to say the least.

[Fredrik]

You could fix up WinDoom.

But then again, both Eternity and PrBoom are better already.

[SteelPH]

At best, you'd have to hack the .exe.

Even that may not do much.

[myk]

It would require some sort of emulator translating mouse.vxd into some sort of Windows XP readable file for the system to assimilate.

[SulfurOccult]

don't know whats special about my computer, but Doom95 works fine for me. sound, mouse support both work. only thing i can't get to work is netplay.

[Lobo]

Send a letter to Bill Gates asking him to either:

a) send you the source code for Doom95

or

b) Release an XP-compatible version of Doom95.

[insertwackynamehere]

what would MS have to lose if they released the Doom95 source?

[myk]

They would lose their virginity.

MasterOfPuppets said:
don't know whats special about my computer, but Doom95 works fine for me. sound, mouse support both work. only thing i can't get to work is netplay.

You have Windows XP and the mouse works?

What mouse is it? What Windows updates have you installed? Do you enable any sort of compatibility mode, or do you use any kind of emulation software?

[Piezo]

I'm curious about why the Doom95 source code hasn't been release. Anyone?

[Lobo]

Why *WOULD* the source be released?
Has MS released the code for Office? Or SQL server? Or Exchange? Or Internet Explorer?

As you can see, we're talking about a company which is publishing it's source code all the time for all of it's programs... Not.

[Infinite Ammunition]

Lobo said:

Why *WOULD* the source be released?
Has MS released the code for Office? Or SQL server? Or Exchange? Or Internet Explorer?

As you can see, we're talking about a company which is publishing it's source code all the time for all of it's programs... Not.

donkey.bas bitches

[ultdoomer]

I know next to nothing about programming, so this might sound like a stupid question, but why could people make source ports with a bunch of new features, but not simply port an older program to a new OS without changing it?

Yes, I read the thread and heard that the source code for Doom95 wasn't released, but why can't you just port the original executable to Windows XP, just like Doom95 is the original executable ported to Windows 95? I haven't played the original for God knows how long since modern computers don't support it, but I think I remember Doom95 being exactly the same as the original, execpt for a different OS.

I would like to attempt to record COMPET-N-worthy demos, but I can't since the original won't work for me. I know you could create demos compatible with the original using PrBoom, but Adam asks you not to, and I'm guessing it's detectable. Am I right?

[Lobo]

Most ports started out that way i.e. just doing a conversion to get it working under windows, but they don't stop there.

Doom 95 is NOT a direct port from DOS to Windows either: off the top of my head I know they added a GUI launcher and doubled the resolution(from 320x240 to 640x480) and I'm sure there are quite a few other changes which I don't remember(mouse support maybe?).

What's wrong with the source ports currently available? If you don't like the new features they've added, just turn them off. Also, many ports remain true to the "feel" of vanilla doom(e.g PRBoom): have you tried those?

[ultdoomer]

Lobo said:

Most ports started out that way i.e. just doing a conversion to get it working under windows, but they don't stop there.

What's wrong with the source ports currently available? If you don't like the new features they've added, just turn them off. Also, many ports remain true to the "feel" of vanilla doom(e.g PRBoom): have you tried those?

Nothing is wrong with the current source ports, but they all add new features which means you can't submit demos recorded with them to COMPET-N because Adam says that cheating. Even if you don't use the features, I think it is possible to determine if a demo is recorded with PrBoom even if in was recorded in the original demo format. That's the only reason I wish the original was ported.

Btw, what are the system specs of some of the COMPET-N players' computers? (I know there's some on here.) I'm asking because it won't work on my modern computer.

[Grazza]

The compet-n rules are that port demos are not allowed - whether they are readily detectable as such (or give the user any advantages or disadvantages) is beside the point.

The basic reason why Doom2.exe was never ported directly to Windows (or DOS for that matter) is that the source release was for the Linux version (relevant link), and by the time that had been ported to DOS, it was rather different from the standard DOS exes. Also, in those days there seemed little point in trying to make it work just like Doom2.exe, since anyone who wanted to use Doom2.exe would just do so - I don't imagine people foresaw that future operating systems would break DOS sound support.

A lot of people who use Doom2.exe nowadays in XP just use -nosound (or PC Speaker for sound effects). I find this works OK. I'm not sure if even this helps in XP Pro.

[myk]

It's not simply a matter of features; COMPET-N restricts demos to the original DOS engines to set certain standards and to make sure everyone uses pretty much the same thing (the original game) to compete.

I think the fact that PrBoom's demos are different is a good thing, and whether or not some ported engines might be able to record exactly like Doom does not change things; if they can record "exact" demos, then submitting with the real engines is a matter of good faith. Look for instance at Drew DeVore's newer demos; he records with Doom2 and even explains how he got around some shortcomings because of the lack of sound support, instead of resorting to some other engine or something.

I recorded only one demo that made its way to COMPET-N, but I do use the DOS engines all the time anyway. I use a Celeron 666 MHz, 256 MB RAM, 32 MB SiS video card, Genius 2 button serial mouse, IBM Model M keyboard, Sound Blaster 16 value, running Windows 98. I've used a Pentium 166 MHz to play or record, as well.

It's noteworthy that Adam Williamson apparently got Doom running quite flawlessly on Linux (with DOSEmu.)

[VinceDSS]

ultdoomer said:

Btw, what are the system specs of some of the COMPET-N players' computers? (I know there's some on here.) I'm asking because it won't work on my modern computer.

I got a trusty P200 + Win98 SE + SB16 for most of my vanilla doom action.

My dad's computer can also run Win98, it's a P4-2.4 with SB live. I sometimes use it to play coops with vanilla doom.

I also have my own computer but it's fairly new, AMD64 with PCI express and SB Live. Win98 runs on it but I gave it up because the sound emulation doesnt work at all (it freezes the computer). I believe it's an issue with the new chipsets (it's a nforce 4 ultra, nvidia provides 98 drivers only for nforce2 and earlier).

So I run WinXP on it, It can run doom.exe without sound with very slight lag. If I put sound on with VDMSound, it's still playable but laggier.

[Mindless Rambler]

Strange, Doom 95 works perfectly on my Windows XP Professional...

[myk]

The thing isn't that it doesn't work; it does, but you can't use the mouse with it.

[Opulent]

There's an awful lot that I could say about this, but in short, absolutely NOTHING in the computer business (HW or SW) is designed or expected to work after 5 years. They don't make DOOM3 or Xbox2 or Windows Longhorn or even System V Unix to last beyond 'now'. The operating systems are too closely tied to the hardware that runs them for that to be any different.

99% of computer consumers use the current thing... those of us who are still in that 1% are screwed.

[myk]

Opulent said:
99% of computer consumers use the current thing... those of us who are still in that 1% are screwed.

Even in the US there are many people using old stuff... never mind other (less wealthy) countries.

[entryway]

myk said:

Even in the US there are many people using old stuff... never mind other (less wealthy) countries.

this was an example of consciousness being manipulated

[Opulent]

yes; heck I have win98 on 2 of my 3 PCs.
I use Netscape4.7 as one of my 3 browsers and let's not even mention games. :P

however, there is no support or vendor sale of HW or SW from befroe 2000.
If you think you'll be able to play HL2 or be able to active the next version of Windows in 5 years, you're dreaming.

[Hobbs]

There are such things as "workarounds." Today we have emulators for the really old stuff, VDMSound and DOSBox being prime examples, and the more skilled among the masses can actually run many DOS programs flawlessly in newer versions of Windows.

[myk]

Yeah, old hardware becomes defunct except in the 2nd hand market very soon. I only said that because of the %, which seemed too low from experience.

I cant spell u said:
what I mean is would it be hard for me to make a source port thats exactly like Doom95 only instead itll be called DoomXP. You know so you can use the mouse and everything and it would be the original Doom. No mouse look or anything exactly like Doom95 only fully compatible with windows xp. So how difficult would that be?

Hmm, our thread kind of got derailed into whether Doom95 itself could be modified; but in truth such a port would not be hard to make. All the info required to make it is available in one way or another from the existing engines or ports, or can be developed on similar lines.

The launcher would be easy to imitate.
Adding resolutions of 640x400 and 320x240/640x480 windowed would be easy.
Various engines have developed sfx/music sound codes for Windows.
Various engines have developed controller (mouse, joystick) codes for Windows.
The game play behavior of Doom95 is known (like The Ultimate DOOM's Doom.)
And appart from that you'd need to raise Doom's VPO limit a bit.

[Hobbs]

Bleh. If your going to do that, why not just grab the Boom Source Code, make a launcher for it, and do it that way. Because really, borrow source code from other places, raising the VPO limit (and other editing limits, of course) and throwing it in a vat of code-making and stirring thouroughly, well, you'd get a cut down version of PRBoom is what you would get.

OK readability sucks, but the point is this has basically been done.

[doom2day]

Doom95 on my computer not only doesn't support the mouse but the partial invisbilty makes the enemies/players stand out more! (there are lots of brightly colored dots)

[Mindless Rambler]

^lol, also mouse works on mine too, but I have to turn sound off... strange.