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Shapeless

Aracnotron not related to mastermind

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what's your take on these two guys. I think that while they are close genetic cousins they are not the exact same species. for starters the Aracnotrons are smaller. Tho that can mean they just aren't fully grown yet. but they have more bug-like eye's. I think that aracnotrons don't grow to be the size of masterminds, but are rather a similer species.

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I would have to agree...
Masterminds are more demonlike,
while Aracnotrons are more alien looking.
Maybe the Aracnotrons came from a UAC gene experiment on Masterminds?

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BBG said:

Maybe ALL OF THE MONSTERS EXCEPT ZOMBIES ARE FROM HELL!? Jeez.


Impossible! How did you come to this conclusion?

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I wonder what they would look like without that metal base and legs...

Well, from that, the demons may of made the spiders from pieces of the UAC base beacuse they worn't born or spawned with metal legs were they?

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Well, if the spider mastermind was the general of Hell that led the invasion, it's a safe assumption that arachnotrons are just spider masterminds in training so to speak. Since they have crap for physical capabilities, it's their enormous brains and resulting intelligence that's valuable to Hell's efforts (though they all seem pretty incompetent to me). Either way, it's interesting to think of each level as having strategic "deployment of troops" and so on instead of just a series of fun shooting mazes. As it stands, if SMMs are generals, Arachnotrons are merely majors or corporals, etc.

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I've always thought of the Spider mastermind to be the queen of hell, and the cyberdemon being the general and having the war experiance. Funny how we all have different views on such simple subjects ;)

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For a more definitive DOOM lore writing, see http://www.forumplanet.com/planetdoom/topic.asp?fid=7181&tid=1596901&p=1
It's nearly 50 A4 pages long! And it still is being written.

Anyway, I prefer dreaming to ranting... But my OWN opinion on Arachnotrons is that they are technologically advanced versions for the awkward Masterminds. Simply put:
- they move a lot faster for their own size than SMMs;
- their weapons are more advanced (plasma not bullets) and cannot hurt their brethren;
- they are a lot more prolific than SMMs; a group of well placed Arachs is more dangerous than an ever visible SMM;

As for mechanical parts: I wouldn't doubt the existence of technology in the Hell beneath.

And why not? Especially because SMMs in DOOM 2 (and in E4) have been placed where they are most vulnerable. So they'd be exterminated!

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Well, in my mind, Arachnotrons are Hellspawn but with UAC components. It is said in text-screen while traveling to level 7 in Doom2. Demons have corrupted space station and entire technology in there and as a result Arachnotrons (and Mancubuses) were created. I have no idea why Mastermind (in Doom1 that happend earlier than Doom2) is hybrid of Hell and Tech.

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Technician said:

I look at them this way: The gays at id needed a cool monster. They drew a brain on meca legs.

The gays? Well I guess it COULD have worked out between carmack and romero..

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If you have ever player Caverns of Darkness you might know that Arachnotrons are indeed the children of the Mastermind... ;)

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I see it as analagous to a Queen ant or Queen bee that is larger than the workers.

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(from Ichor)
"I see it as something else to shoot."
YOU GODDAMMED KILLER!! YOU'RE THREATENING AN ENDANGERED SPECIES!! :P

"Queen [...] and worker (or something like that)"
Why? They don't get along well.

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Technician said:
The gays at id


Whoah there buddy! Just because most of them have long hair and sound less than manly *coughCARMACKcough* doesn't mean...

Heh, I know what you meant ;)

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Touchdown said:

I have no idea why Mastermind (in Doom1 that happend earlier than Doom2) is hybrid of Hell and Tech.

I always liked the fact that id blended technology with the demons. Perhaps it was to better suit the demons for mass destruction in the earthly plane because their normal (i.e. no guns) form wasn't powerful enough to wreak the amount of havoc they intended? In Hell they could have gotten away without any enhancements.

Or maybe the Cyberdemon and Spider Mastermind heard about the marine's military arsenal in Episode 1 and decided they should upgrade themselves accordingly to stop him from undoing their plans.

The Cyber's mechanised leg and lower torso could be explained as earthly repairs done to him whilst in battle (by enslaved human engineers perhaps?).

I wonder what attacks the Cyber and the Spiderdemon would have had had they not upgraded themselves... The Cyberdemon could have had some kind of advanced Baron "green sludge" attack, the Spiderdemon telekenesis or mind-control? Obviously they didn't think they were powerful enough to go up against rockets and BFGs.

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if the aracnotrons are smaller versions of the mastermind then how can you explain their more bug like eye's?

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Actually Romero said he wished id would get out of that damn cyborg fad. I can't remember how that came up. Wolfenstein and doom had cybernetics. Quake did not. All the rest did. I think Romero would have really liked to have seen a big change in id's games if he had not gotten fired after Quake.

I really like to think that hell could have the use of technology to create new kinds of demons. Maybe like earth, hell can evolve with the times.

Some people like to think of Dooms hell as another dimension and not the biblical hell. Maybe hells really Dimension X and the Master mind is of the same species as Krang.

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Shapeless said:

if the aracnotrons are smaller versions of the mastermind then how can you explain their more bug like eye's?

Infants usually have more pronounced and exaggerated features than adults. Look at human babies (large round heads, big eyes) and puppies and cats (both have larger eyes than adults). Also look at the form of unborn fetuses, these can look very alien-like with bug eyes and huge foreheads.

The reason, i think, for these larger, disproportioned features is because the skull has not yet fused together because the brain is still growing inside. Once the brain has reached a certain stage of development, the skull bones begin joining together and the head becomes (comparatively) smaller.

Even though the Spiderdemons don't have skulls like we do, they still have faces which presumably have bones beneath them.

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Technician said:

if he had not gotten fired after Quake.


Why did he get fired? :P

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For those who don't want to buy the book could you give it to us in a nutshell.

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Carmack and the others thought he wasn't pulling his weight so they asked him to leave. According to Carmack he was spending too much time on IIRC and deathmatching and not enough time working.

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I figure the Mastermind was an earlier design, from when Doom was still going to be a game with alien invaders, instead of hellspawn. Somewhere along the line they changed it to demons from hell, but kept the Mastermind as the final boss.

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Fredrik said:

I don't think hellspawn has genes.


Come'on, we all know the Doom monsters were clay figures moulded into specific shapes, then "digitized" into sprites. The Doom engine replicates as many as needed based on the number and type of monsters the map maker places on the map while developing it.

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What is Hell, a zoo now?

The Arachnotrons are minions of the Spiderdemons. Evil beings morphed and forged into a shape alike their masters' through eternal fear and hatred, to fulfill the wicked ways of the underworld.

udderdude said:
I figure the Mastermind was an earlier design, from when Doom was still going to be a game with alien invaders, instead of hellspawn. Somewhere along the line they changed it to demons from hell, but kept the Mastermind as the final boss.

That earlier design never existed, as they only briefly considered doing an Aliens game (no spiders there) before they even started DOOM. They simply used "cybernetics" for the creatures of Hell, figuring the supernatural beings could well warp technological developments to their advantage.

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doom2.net should answer your probs just check out the monsters page......man the guy who made this must have a pissed off girlfriend

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