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Darkman 4

ESRB gets a ton of flak for not factoring in GTA: SA's sex "game" while rating it.

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Man, I can't wait until the democrats take over and we all live in goverment mandated styrofoam houses and wear bubblewrap suits.

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Democrats? The conservative Christians are gonnna be all over this. Them and their making-religion-law-enforcing-personal-beliefs-my-way-or-the-highway attitude.

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They complain about game-makers not thinking of the children, when it is those who complain who have somehow purchsed the M-rate game for their 12 year old child. Go figure.

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You know, if this is freedom, then why not it be free? Sure, we can buy these games by ourselves cause most of us are over 17, but now them stupid people that are starting to tell us what we can and cannot do start ranting about bad video games. In the future "M" rated games will have as much language, violence, sexual content, and drug use as Super Monkey Ball Junior 2.

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geekmarine said:

Democrats?

yes. why is it always initialy a democrat that makes a fuss about video games?

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stupid. if you let kid by GTA:SA then what the fuck were you expecting? "OH NO THIS SEX THING WASNT DOCUMENTED IN THE RATING EVEN THOUGH THE MILLION OTHER SEXUAL REFERENCES IN THE GAME WERE, WHICH DIDNT AFFECT MY DESCISION AS A PARENT TO BUY IT FOR MY KID! BUT NOW I COULD SUE!"

its not like the sex mini game was found in fucking Barney And The Quest For The Friendship Rainbow or something

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insertwackynamehere said:

its not like the sex mini game was found in fucking Barney And The Quest For The Friendship Rainbow or something

But you looked and looked anyway.

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Whats even worse is that it's a left over scene which may have been put there as an easter egg,You need to have some experience modding the game to find it.The ESRB didnt even know it exists,How the hell were they supposed to rate it?

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Who really genuinely gives a fuck about what some uber-left fairy or uber-right asshole actually has to say? I mean, really, c'mon people, either side are the most ignorant and/or stupid representatives of our race.

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I don't even really like GTA: SA. So I guess I don't really care either way.

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Well, I mean young kids, but if anyone is going to play it they have to know that it's not going to be a letter adventure.

Being aware of the real world helps too!

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TheDarkArchon said:

The fact it's a mod that unlocks it means that should not be taken into account by any games rating board. Simple as that.

yeah thats another thing :)

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lmao if I were more cynical, I'd suggest we require anyone who would purchase GTA: SA for their kids to be instantly sterilized, because they're obviously just plain bad parents. I really just can't believe anyone would do that. Honestly, they have a big fit, we get ratings for video games, and then they don't even use them when making purchasing decisions.

Reminds me of last week, my girlfriend and I went to see "War of the Worlds." These people in front of us brought some 5-year-old kid to see the movie. Now, it's not that big a deal, I guess, it was only PG-13, but I know I'd personally never take a 5-year-old to see that movie. Realistically speaking, I suppose the kid's probably not going to be scarred for life or anything, but hell, if I were a parent, I sure as hell wouldn't want to take that kind of chance.

By the way, I'd like to get a little political here and point out how screwy politics has gotten lately. Used to be, liberals were big government, everything regulated, and conservatives were small government, no regulation. Now it seems things have reversed. Liberals (at least extreme liberals) are all about no government regulation - abortion, gay marriage, free speech (which covers things like sex in video games), etc., whereas it seems like conservatives want more government regulation - Patriot Act, marriage amendment, limits to free speech. Of course, this was a total side bar, and has really nothing at all to do with anything. Just an observation. Weird...

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BTW, awesome game. Play it at any cost (of course, I don't mean going around killing people etc. :)).

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I do not want extremists of any nation to have any power to make/change/remove laws, they will just do what they think is good for their deity.

The First Amendment says everyone has the RIGHT to practice whatever religion they desire without persecution.

Those who want this nation ruled by the church or any other kind of religion-based government are violating our first amendment.

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Pure Hellspawn said:

Those who want this nation ruled by the church or any other kind of religion-based government are violating our first amendment.


Those who say they cant are violating their first amendments.

LOOPHOLEZ

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I think people are missing the real issue here.

The problem is not the sexual content. The "problem," argued by family interest groups, is that ESRB underrated the sexual content of the game. They argue that it deserved an 'A' rather than the 'M' it received.

There's nothing wrong or Christian about providing content rating for games. But the problem is this: How is the ESRB supposed to rate hidden content?

I think that this is how to remedy the problem:

1) ESRB should require game developers to declare the type of content accessible in the game.
2) If it's later found that the game developer underrated its content, hold the game developer accountable somehow.

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The way I see it, the content is not immediately accessible to the end user without modifying the game - and the Hot Coffee mod, even though it enables the scenes that were previously disabled by Rockstar, is entirely responsible for that kind of sexual content. Thus, the game's rating should not be increased.

But here's another kicker.

I wrote in a previous blog entry on another site:

I did a small bit of investigation myself (falling short of actually downloading and installing the Hot Coffee mod on my computer - no way am I touching that crap). According to Planet GrandTheftAuto, a member of the GameSpy network, the so-called "graphic scenes" are not graphic at all, involving amateurishly jerky and comically exaggerated animations - and get this - both characters involved in the scenes are fully clothed all the time. The only things that could possibly be seen as explicit are the sound effects (which make it plainly obvious what is supposed to be happening, with or without visuals) and the motions. And according to the ESRB's Game Ratings and Descriptor Guide, this would warrant a descriptor of Strong Sexual Content on the back of the game's package:

Strong Sexual Content - Graphic references to and/or depictions of sexual behavior, possibly including nudity

And wouldn't you know it, that's already printed on the back of the package (for my PC DVD-ROM version of the game anyway). So there is really no need to have the game shifted up to an AO rating.

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WildWeasel said:

The way I see it, the content is not immediately accessible to the end user without modifying the game - and the Hot Coffee mod, even though it enables the scenes that were previously disabled by Rockstar, is entirely responsible for that kind of sexual content. Thus, the game's rating should not be increased.

But what if the content were accessible through the game, but extremely difficult to find? What if, for example, certain content would be unlocked after six months of play? It SHOULD affect the rating of the game, but may be impossible for ESRB to even know about. What then?

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There is no impulse within the game to seek out and install the mod. They do not give you hints on how to do it. If it were a secret feature that could be unlocked after certain amounts of play, that would be a different issue entirely, but as it stands it requires a modification to be made outside of the game, and therefore it is not Rockstar's fault what you do with your own game.

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Yes, it would be a different issue. But I'm asking you what you think should be done in the case of that different issue, and you didn't answer.

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AndrewB said:

Yes, it would be a different issue. But I'm asking you what you think should be done in the case of that different issue, and you didn't answer.

It's my impression that the ESRB has to be able to play through the entire game and explore all the features that are available to be able to make a judgement on what rating the game is. And in such a case, Rockstar would be required to tell the ESRB reviewers about everything, perhaps even going so far as to enable the cheats for them (I must notice that they are very thorough when it comes to these things - they picked out the few instances of swearing in Full Throttle, and those were also hidden).

Had "hot coffee" been in the game and seriously hidden, they would be required to tell the ESRB. But it wasn't an official feature in this case, so obviously they wouldn't have to tell.

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