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wallis

invisibility

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what exactly does it do....i put it on when i started playing doom when i was young...and thinking that i could walk past an imp and not get noticed...and then the imp shoved a fireball up my ass. I was playing jdoom3d...and i picked it up and remembered the experience..why the hell is it there..like...every other game's form of invisible actually stops the monsters trying to kill, but doom's invisibility sux....bad....even the revenant's homing rockets still nail you.

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It means the enemies are more likely to miss you (or rather that their aim will be off). Pick up an invisibility then go find an arachnotron, you'll find his shots scatter near you rather than all come in a stream directly at you.

However, for an experienced Doomer, you are more likely to recognise an enemy's attack frame starting and use your normal reflexive dodge to get out of the way only to find you have dodged right into an imp's wayward fireball or something. It's really only useful against hitscan enemies. If they shoot on target, they should hit you with their instant attack. Increasing their chance of missing therefore helps.

In Zdoom, the item behaves slightly differently. If you have invisibility on before an enemy is aware of you, you do stand a chance of being able to go undetected. However, as soon as you make a noise, or somehow wake up the enemy, then it will behave as enemies normally do to a partially invisible player.

As for how you expected it to behave - why would you want that? You want the enemies to simply not attack? To wander round looking for, but not seeing you? In a game like doom, with the enemy, firepower and hitpoint value it has, that would actually be fairly pointless and dull. Much better to have the bad guys sort-of see you and try to hit you, but do it badly, even if the item is a bit of a pain once you get to know the game and most cases you are better off not picking it up at all.

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All it does is randomize the direction in which monsters fire. IMO it's a nearly useless powerup. Its only advantage is against hitscan enemies.

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by god that helped me......i don't play around with power ups that much, so i didn't know much about it..

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ok so in terms of demo recording is it usefull on maps that have speed-run prohibiting numbers of hitscan enemies? e.g. twelve chaingunners?

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It certainly is, even more so on NM or with -fast. I doubt you'll ever see a tn08 without the invis being used. Doom2 map31 provides another clear-cut example.

It can be useful in some situations with non-hitscan enemies too, for instance if you don't have much room to manoeuvre and something will inevitably be firing at you.

See this thread for a similar discussion. Vile's post gives some nice examples.

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geez,
i never expected these much posts...well i know what invisibility does....now please avoid laughin, but i haven't heard the term hit-scan yet....can you explain that on top of my invisibility question too

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It's the instant-damage attacks (e.g. bullets), as opposed to projectiles (e.g. fireballs). There's no way to dodge hitscan attacks - if they fire at you, and the engine judges them to have hit you, you take damage immediately.

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I don't like invisibility much either... in original Doom maps it's given in bad locations.. not much those hitscanners... In episode 3 in one level it was given nicely before a group of hitscanners and only a couple imps and one cacodemon. That's probably the only time it has given me some advantage in an original Doom map.

In my own maps I usually place them near a location with a lot hitscanners.

It would be nice if some port had a feature to have all the powerups and stim&medikits in inventory. It could be a simple turn off and on feature or you could define yourself which items you want to appear in the inventory and which items used right away when picked up. By default this feature would be completely off, because it would alter the gameplay quite much.

If the invisibility was changed into some monsters can't see you, the seeing or not seeing should have some range. If you go close, they'll see you, the further you go away from them, less accurate they will shoot... This kind of thing should be an on/off feature too.

Does invisibilty affect demons? I know they will bite into bad directions, but I've not noticed if the bites hit or not...

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One thing I'm curious to know is how the fuzz-effect itself works. All I know is that it uses the colormap in some way, because I remember using inkworks to make a white "fog" colormap once and anything with partial invisibility was white.

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If you ask me, partial invisibility is your enemy in the first part of map07. Mancubus fireballs are spread out and somewhat unpredictable (to an extent) to begin with. But with partial invisibility, it's anyone's guess where those fireballs are going.

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Oh yea, partial invisibility finds another use in multiplayer games, especially on those dark maps... GL rendering might ruin it though. The software Doom way of transparent fuzzing is excellent. Why is that sort of fuzz not implemented in GL? From somewhere I read it's impossible, but I think that's just ridiculous.

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Jimi said:

Oh yea, partial invisibility finds another use in multiplayer games, especially on those dark maps... GL rendering might ruin it though. The software Doom way of transparent fuzzing is excellent. Why is that sort of fuzz not implemented in GL? From somewhere I read it's impossible, but I think that's just ridiculous.



There are some nice shadow effects that could be used in GL. For some strange reason though most GL programmers just use normal translucency which totally ruins the effect. I wonder why.

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Graf Zahl said:

There are some nice shadow effects that could be used in GL.

For example?

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Invis is only useful if your a noob to playing the game when your not experience with strafing. Experienced players find it to be more of a pain in the ass due to strafing experience.

As for hitscan weapons it can be a little helpful.

It's funny how the pinkies know EXACTLY where you are when your invisible in a pitch black room. They must of have some good sense of smell i guess, lol.

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Inferno said:

It's funny how the pinkies know EXACTLY where you are when your invisible in a pitch black room. They must of have some good sense of smell i guess, lol.


Oh no, didn’t you see some pinkies miss their attack and bite another pinky?

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hey, why did they never implant any of the cool of the cool power ups like invisibility in doom 3. Would ave been cool to stealthilly punch a pinky in the face

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that sux it should have been in single player....it's not exactly like doo3 is famous for multiplayer...

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Invis spheres are good if you use them in stratagy, example, a room with chaingunners on a ledge, and an invis sphere in the middle of the room. Hence the chaingunners would not rip you apart if you are quick enough to grab it and run...

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Invisibilty spheres piss me off, I'm so used to automatically dodging non-hitscan enemies that I move out of the way to dodge the attack I often run into it. I only find them usefull against hitscan enemies, but I don't often find a pack of them without an imp..

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Ajapted said:

For example?


The best one I have seen so far is from PrBoom:

  if (viewplayer->mo->flags & MF_SHADOW)
  {
    glBlendFunc(GL_DST_COLOR, GL_ONE_MINUS_SRC_ALPHA);
    glAlphaFunc(GL_GEQUAL,0.1f);
    glColor4f(0.2f,0.2f,0.2f,0.33f);
  }
Other things I have exprerimented with are subtractive blending and using the sprite to reduce the brightness of the background. They are not as good as PrBoom's method but still better than just drawing a translucent version of the sprite.

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ducon said:

Oh no, didn’t you see some pinkies miss their attack and bite another pinky?


Yeah I have seen them miss. But I never had one pinky bite another, gotta try that sometime soon.

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