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Gokuma

Screwed up police action

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Considering that Utah has been it's own mini-police state as long as it has existed, this isn't that big of a suprise. Still, that is really fucked up.

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This is a good opportunity to contrast participant accounts with what standard media presents. Check the Daily Herald linked at wikinews, for example.

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It's a damn rave party where peole are known to distribute all kinds of drugs, and everyone is pretty much on cloud nine. What do you expect, the police to walk in and talk softly? The police have to show the threat of force to get people to shut the fuck up. And if people don't listen, then force is necessary. All these fuckers crying brutality are the same ones who are guilty in the first place. Damn, it's gotta be hard to be a cop sometimes, no wonder some of them go crooked!! And for people who say most raves don't attract a large number of drug users and sellers, well, go pull someone else's leg.

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baronofhell said:
All these fuckers crying brutality are the same ones who are guilty in the first place.

You have something to back that in addition to hateful bigotry?

Keep in mind in some civilized places using drugs isn't thought of as a capital sin; maybe these people agree with that?

Stay in your chair and post normally instead of ranting like a freak zealot with a bullet lodged in the head, or take your medicine. The "cops" here are watching you.

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myk said:

Keep in mind in some civilized places using drugs isn't thought of as a capital sin; maybe these people agree with that?


Then they should probably go there, because they damn well know that in the US it is generally frowned upon. It's not a secret that using a bunch of drugs is a crime against the law, they just didn't give a crap and they paid the price for it. I don't see what the huge deal is other than they're a bunch of raving lunatics lawl pun

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But of course - heavily armed and camo'd grunts tear-gassing and kicking the crap out of some unarmed boys and girls, all of whom had been searched upon entry for drugs/weapons at a 100% legit gathering, is totally justifiable.

Bullshit.

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Don't blame the cops, cops arent bad people on general principle. There CAN be bad cops, but a lot of cops are good too. However I dont know if I agree with this raid, but do any of us really know what happened? And its not like each individual officer did this to be a dick, they are following orders, so stop making it look like the cops are to blame. Thats stupid bullshit spread from the hippie generation about them representing the man. Maybe in Soviet Russia where the police would shoot you in the street out of suspision, but here the police are to get your asses out of trouble, you are just thinking of the police you hear about who go crooked. Of course you hear about them more, whats the headline gonna say "Good cop does honest thing; Goes home proud"?

EDIT: also I dont care if people do drugs honestly, but it is against the law and arguing that you dont agree with the law is a stupid defense. Its perfectly fine to protest, but sorry its not a defense in court. And like I said, I dont care if people do drugs, but you see there are some people who think that killing another person is perfectly fine too. But is that a defense? No. It doesnt matter how they feel about a subject its what the law says. And keep in mind I'm not comparing drugs to murder, but I'm comparing the principles. I personally think drugs like pot should be legalized, even though I disagree with them. Although I have my doubts they were only doing pot at this thing.

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Most of the blogs and such I read of people who were there were by people who said they weren't doing any drugs and that most people there weren't either. Some of the people said they or people they knew were beaten and arrested by the cops just for asking what was going on.

And yes, people do drugs at raves I am sure, but people do drugs at pretty much every musical event. I don't think I've been to a single concert where I didn't smell pot in the air. I watched a guy smoke a whole joint in front of me at a SKinny Puppy concert. The entire tiemi was at Lollapalooza, i smelled pot smoke in the air.

Should we send the national guard in to these events as well?

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Utah is a fucked up state. That said, most raves do involve some drugs and drinking, but thats not to say everbody does it, or that raves are bad.

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Ralphis said:
Then they should probably go there, because they damn well know that in the US it is generally frowned upon.

Or not; it's not up to you anyway. Additionally, there are two necessary reasons for laws to change; because people don't actively consider then proper, and because they are discussed officially and changed. It's not like they'll want to sit there when they'd rather follow their practices, which can't be that bad as long as they don't hurt anybody (except mormonoid sensibilities, and ocasionally themselves a bit if they're not careful.)

It's not a secret that using a bunch of drugs is a crime against the law, they just didn't give a crap and they paid the price for it.

Oh, I guess it's too hard to make an investigation, provide proper information to the law, and call whoever is supposed guilty of something to court to consider and discuss legal issues when the time is right in a civil manner, as opposed to making a huge deal and a spontaneous violent mess? Great way to sort things out there.

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insertwackynamehere said:
Don't blame the cops, cops arent bad people on general principle. There CAN be bad cops, but a lot of cops are good too. However I dont know if I agree with this raid, but do any of us really know what happened? And its not like each individual officer did this to be a dick, they are following orders, so stop making it look like the cops are to blame. Thats stupid bullshit spread from the hippie generation about them representing the man.

Cops in a mass are like dogs; if you whip them into action they will bite. I can't think the harshness used was because some cops were drunk and wanted to have fun beating up people; there were orders to do just that, and the fact that there were drugs was just an excuse they could use. They found the occasion to do this, and more than anything it's likely to do with heightened sociopolitical tension.

EDIT: also I dont care if people do drugs honestly, but it is against the law and arguing that you dont agree with the law is a stupid defense. Its perfectly fine to protest, but sorry its not a defense in court. And like I said, I dont care if people do drugs, but you see there are some people who think that killing another person is perfectly fine too. But is that a defense? No. It doesnt matter how they feel about a subject its what the law says.

Laws are for judging events; they can't be matched with events on a one on one case. Also, laws are generic and are matched to precedents (cases where they were applied clearly and with good effect) as a reference. Additionally, in court, the actions taken by the authorities are certainly considered in realtion to a supposed legal issue; and if they perpetuate abuse or irregularities they count not only in the case, but set precedents to how to deal with the abuse, and whether the control is effective and appropriate.

There are two things that are certain; people will continue to discuss whether and which drugs are allowed (through the law), and people will continue to use drugs.

Events like these could make a big difference on drug management laws, because if we're going to beat the living shit out of people for presumably using them, perhaps we should just leave them alone as long as they otherwise behave. Or find a different way to face the issue, if there is one.

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All's I know, when a cop says something, shut the hell up. That's the best way to go about it. If you feel you were treated wrong, contact the police department afterwards or something. I just think it's so funny when I hear of some moron who was mouthing off to a cop and then complains when he gets a little roughed up.

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baronofhell said:

All's I know, when a cop says something, shut the hell up. That's the best way to go about it. If you feel you were treated wrong, contact the police department afterwards or something. I just think it's so funny when I hear of some moron who was mouthing off to a cop and then complains when he gets a little roughed up.

I don't think the police department would do anything. They protect their own. Not to mention that apparently a lot of the officers there were actual National Guard. Apparently there were several dozen lawsuits filed after this incident, though. I hope some good can come of them.

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Danarchy said:

I don't think the police department would do anything. They protect their own. Not to mention that apparently a lot of the officers there were actual National Guard. Apparently there were several dozen lawsuits filed after this incident, though. I hope some good can come of them.


Yeah, but hopefully in the way of criminal charges, not cocksucking cash payouts.

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pilottobombadier said:

Yeah, but hopefully in the way of criminal charges

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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baronofhell said:
All's I know, when a cop says something, shut the hell up. That's the best way to go about it.

That's a good choice for people with a particular fear of the authorities and of bludgeoning sticks.

If you feel you were treated wrong, contact the police department afterwards or something.

That's what lawyers are for; or at least one would be a better choice than contacting the offending party itself. Also, it's good to post on blogs so you can get in touch with other people who had the same issue, and take combined action if necessary.

pilottobombadier said:
Yeah, but hopefully in the way of criminal charges,

That's what lawsuits happen to include. Aside from possibly any effect on individual cops that may have applied irresponsible violence (rare unless they killed someone) suing cops and the authorities is a necessary step in putting a stop to excess aggression from them, which is usually of a more global nature than mere incidents, or can escalate if not controlled. The whole point in such behavior is to repeat it, especially if no one speaks up against it.

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myk said:

That's what lawsuits happen to include. Aside from possibly any effect on individual cops that may have applied irresponsible violence (rare unless they killed someone) suing cops and the authorities is a necessary step in putting a stop to excess aggression from them, which is usually of a more global nature than mere incidents, or can escalate if not controlled. The whole point in such behavior is to repeat it, especially if no one speaks up against it.


Umm, no, a law suit - which is civil - cannot apply charges relating to a federal offense, iirc. Otherwise, OJ would be in maximum security having his ass wedded to Bubba's cock.

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pilottobombadier said:
Umm, no, a law suit - which is civil

A civil law suit is between civil peers, a criminal law suit is initiated by an official (non-private) prosecutor. In this case there seems to be a law suit by the event organizers against the county, and additionally people arrested or accused by the police or authorities might be under the defence of criminal attorneys. Also, with a proper case, a state or federal prosecutor could eventually file criminal charges against the police force or the county. Not sure about the current details of this case but you can have law suits of both kinds going on.

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Blogs are great because everything you post on them are objective accounts of what happened at any event! You can find out who else was involved with said objective accounts and then you can be free yay

A good thing blogs are never embellished in the writer's favor am i rite or wut

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No one is objective. In any case "objectivity" is gleaned (in a way, since it's always a subjective process) by observing and relating different perspectives which will not be in any one medium.

Blogs are similar to personal accounts (by that I mean oral accounts made directly) or pretty much likes quotes you'd find in a news article, yet thoroughly expanded. Although for the most part the articles in regard to the party and the police intervention apparently felt those quotes were totally unnecessary, unless they came from the authorities. Without the blogs (or similar means) you'd have nearly no representation of a whole part of the matter.

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It was indeed too blatant; I'm sure you're capable of improving the style somewhat.

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[QUOTE]baronofhell said:
Damn, it's gotta be hard to be a cop sometimes


Sympathy for the fucking devil, I godamn say.lol.

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