discouragement

[mechasam]

I look at the screenshots for some of these total conversions... and I have a few things to say about that.

1) What is so Doom about making a new Doom engine that is like Quake and Quake 2? Isn't the whole purpose of a Doom community to make Doom maps instead of Quake-like maps?

2) What happened to the classic Doom TCs like Alien?

3) What happened to the classic style Doom mapping?

I came here to find a doom community, instead I found a sorry Planet Quake-wannabee headquarters. Guys, you are totally disgracing Doom by allowing these people to create engines, Half-Life clone TCs, and so on... stick to what doom is all about: Classic Gaming. I am probably the only old school thinker here. And for those who aren't, those are who I will get the most responses from. The ones who are usually don't speak up, but It's been drivin me crazy.

[nxn]

why the hell do you care? if you don't like it don't download it, simple as that. Some people got bored of Doom style maps and want to see something else for a change.

BTW, I know for a fact there are still a lot of Doom style maps going around.

[mechasam]

hey onion, dont hate me cuz u hate the world. whatever clique u hang around.. the korn clique, the punk clique, whatever, don't take ur aggression out on me d00d. im just an innocent bystandard lookin for some fun doom maps.

im just sayin, doomworld.com is false advertising cuz theres nothing doom about it.

is this not a forum of freedom of speech? so has doom lost its democracy as well?

[Erik]

Lots of people make maps for good old Doom2.exe or it's relative Boom.exe. That the advanced source exist doesn't mean that everyone uses them.

[nxn]

So you go to a website called doomworld, bitch about the doom community being quake wannabe's and expect no negative feedback?

Wake up.

[oRaptoRo]

Actually I agree with em. Doom is Doom, what made it doom was the atmosphere, acheiving some spectacular effects through the primitive engine, not having the overly complex look of some newer games

A lot of source ports have been taking Doom and converting it to something that's been there done that, and while it's cool to play doom again with those new sparkly gl features and nifty shiney lights and shit, it's just not doom to me. So I'd prefer to play a version of Doom that's more true to the original. However... I want to play Doom with others. I'm not the single player kinda person.

That means I either use a gicky convoluted engine like Doom Legacy to play over the net or I'm shit outta luck. Thank god for ZDaemon and CSDoom. CSDoom is the best, period, but it's slowly losing its following--ghey. Anyway, enough of my rant

Flame on

-|RaptoR|

[danarchist]

He spaeks like a newbie, yet he has 144 posts...how can this be?

[Sephiroth]

this is not planet quake, or a wannabe site. zdoom and boom do NOT turn doom to quake! about the only thing that effects game play is jumping. also just because zdoom, and other ports, use the console system does not mean the port is based on quake at all! the cosole is a very good idea nad alows external wads to be loaded while in the game, as well as other features. as for maps, i see little maps that use "quake-like" features, many are still doom. many new maps need ports to aviod the nasty "visplane overflow" error. many still use classic doom level tricks others show off the abilities of the port, nothing more. we are not turning doom to quake. if u dont like ports fine, but dont be a bitch and start screaming "doomworld is turning into planet quake. doom is being made into quake!" and shit like that. Doom is NOT, i repeat NOT turned into quake. as far as i know most new maps are still true to doom, some use minor port features but remain truley doom.

[Erik]

Amen

[oRaptoRo]

Seph, in my own defense, what I'm referring to is the Legacy port. It's really not doom at all unless you turn off every extra feature (like 3 pages worth). Going to their front page you see a bright picture showing off colored lighting, corona's, and all that fancy shit. That's what turns me off on Source ports. If you could look in my doom folder right now, you'd see Terror Mall, Aliens TC, ZDoom, CSDoom and ZDaemon (although I havn't used ZDaemon yet). That's it. I'm not against source ports, I'm against adding features that aren't inherent to the Doom engine. GL and Coronas just don't fit the setting, however I do believe that the dynamic lighting (eg: fireballs emitting a glow that reflects on walls and flats as they fly) is a good thing. I just wish you could get it without using GL. I don't like the way it makes the sprites have a stairstep effect.

I don't know, maybe I'm just too picky.

[Linguica]

I came here to find a doom community, instead I found a sorry Planet Quake-wannabee headquarters. Guys, you are totally disgracing Doom by allowing these people to create engines, Half-Life clone TCs, and so on... stick to what doom is all about : Classic Gaming. I am probably the only old school thinker here. And for those who aren't, those are who I will get the most responses from. The ones who are usually don't speak up, but It's been drivin me crazy.

Shut up.

Just shut up.

You're one of those people. The people who have been playing Doom for years, and now feel personally insulted by source ports and hardware acceleration and scripting and Doom levels that use all of those things. One of those people who feels we should all still use doom2.exe and worship Doom for what it is as the greatest game of all time and a classic not this thing you're degrading and blah blah blah...

It's pathetic. Here's a newsflash: you're not the appointed keeper of Doom. No one is. We can't "disgrace" Doom or somehow taint its legacy by being "unfaithful" to its original elegant simplicity. You should be glad that anyone is still playing Doom at all, and that you have any sort of advanced source ports to play levels in, or new levels to play at all. By all logic Doom should have died in 1996, but for whatever reason it did not, and it has nothing to do with your personal unwavering allegiance to Doom as if it's a religion.

I have played Doom since summer 1994; I have worked on multiple Doom projects; I have continuously worked on or ran a Doom webpage since early 1997. Don't even try and tell me that I'm not old school. However, I'm not like you, because I don't have the silly and completely false notion that I am one of the revered Protectors of the Doom, and that playing a source port with mouselook or lensflares somehow degrades both the game and myself. It's a game. You play it as you see fit. That's what people have been doing for nearly eight years now, and you certainly have no right to tell us what we should or should not do with this great thing that id Software gave us so many years ago.

[deathz0r]

I came here to find a doom community, instead I found a sorry Planet Quake-wannabee headquarters. Guys, you are totally disgracing Doom by allowing these people to create engines, Half-Life clone TCs, and so on... stick to what doom is all about: Classic Gaming. I am probably the only old school thinker here. And for those who aren't, those are who I will get the most responses from. The ones who are usually don't speak up, but It's been drivin me crazy.

why the hell do you bother coming here then? if your intentions were to start a flamewar, mission accomplished. now go away.

[Katgut]

I came here to find a doom community, instead I found a sorry Planet Quake-wannabee headquarters. Guys, you are totally disgracing Doom by allowing these people to create engines, Half-Life clone TCs, and so on... stick to what doom is all about: Classic Gaming. I am probably the only old school thinker here. And for those who aren't, those are who I will get the most responses from. The ones who are usually don't speak up, but It's been drivin me crazy.

AND HOW DARE YOU COMPARE US TO PLANETQUAKE!!!!

Seriously, planet*.com == *.sucks, folks. And, uh, loser, look at the Doom Bible. We're actually ABLE to do everything in there.

I wouldn't call Doom as it ended up "Classic Gaming". I'd call Doom as it was in the Doom Bible "Classic Gaming".

Go take a long walk off a tall cliff.

And be watching for that package in the mail...

[Arioch]

I came here to find a doom community, instead I found a sorry Planet Quake-wannabee headquarters.

YOU COMPARED US TO PLANETQUAKE!@$!$! DIE!#!$$

[Guest ZZ_TOPPER_X]

is this not a forum of freedom of speech?

Nope.

[oRaptoRo]

Seriously, planet*.com == *.sucks, folks. And, uh, loser, look at the Doom Bible. We're actually ABLE to do everything in there.

I wouldn't call Doom as it ended up "Classic Gaming". I'd call Doom as it was in the Doom Bible "Classic Gaming".

Go take a long walk off a tall cliff.

And be watching for that package in the mail...

I agree. The planetquake site started off as a good community website that actually gave useful information to being a website that makes a HUGE profit riding on the back of the most successful first person shooters around. Oh well.

[Lüt]

is this not a forum of freedom of speech?

Nope.

Definately not.

[deathz0r]

Seriously, planet*.com == *.sucks, folks. And, uh, loser, look at the Doom Bible. We're actually ABLE to do everything in there.

I wouldn't call Doom as it ended up "Classic Gaming". I'd call Doom as it was in the Doom Bible "Classic Gaming".

Go take a long walk off a tall cliff.

And be watching for that package in the mail...

I agree. The planetquake site started off as a good community website that actually gave useful information to being a website that makes a HUGE profit riding on the back of the most successful first person shooters around. Oh well.

planetquake was decent until Lowtax got fired from there.

[Katgut]

is this not a forum of freedom of speech?

Nope.

YOU COMPARED US TO A DEMOCRACY!!!!!! DIE!!!!!!!

[oRaptoRo]

to be honest, I'd hit planetquake for mod news and shit, then gather up a few friends and raid a server off the stomped.com server list. Now *thats* oldschool quake =P I never really followed the names of the posters, but lowtax does ring a bell. He used to be in #quake all the time, too. Oh well. That bastard dude really lives up to his name--he really IS a fuckin bastard.

Gamespy and its whole Planet* network need to ride a donkey off a short pier

[Guest ZZ_TOPPER_X]

If for some reason those commie-nazis decide to take over DoomWorld (What? Pfft.), I'll just round up a gang of hackers, go to their little website and *BAM!*. Knock it's pretty lil' face off the web.

[NiGHTMARE]

For the 1,000th time....

TC's are... well, what does TC stand for? Total Conversion. By definition they're not supposed to be Doom. You mentioned the Aliens TC. That sure as hell played nothing like Doom did.

What exactly is wrong with "Quake-like" features anyway? Doom is about the atmosphere, the enemies, the weapons, the sound and the gameplay. Things like plots (as long as they're aren't hours long), true 3D and slopes simply add to what Doom already has.

If nothing new and innovative was added to Doom, I'm sure there would be as much of a community for it left as there is for Wolfenstein 3D (something like 5 people).

And besides, have you ever played those two Invasion levels, set on a spaceship on its way to Mars? They were made around 1995, and they had four rendered cutscenes between them.

BTW, if you want to meet up with other over-opionated, *ahem* "people" such as yourself, I suggest http://www.newdoom.com

[NiGHTMARE]

<< that makes a HUGE profit riding on the back of the most successful first person shooters around. >>

You're a couple of years out of date. Nowadays they've gobbled up strategy games, RPGs, sports games and even console games as well...

[Erik]

You are so right. Doom isn't good because it is primitive, old and ugly. It's good because it has the best gameplay of any FPS. Then there's nothing wrong with trying to use that perfect gameplay to create something entirely different from the original doom (i.e TCs).

And that the ports exist doesn't mean that the old doom is dead or something, if a wad runs with doom2.exe, I play it in doom2.exe.

[NiGHTMARE]

doom(2).exe doesn't even work on my computer anymore (even in DOS)

[masterhassan]

...riiiiiiiiight. i would like to hear your difinition of "doom style maps". doom isn't about not being able to jump, or see whats over your head, doom is about having the shit scared out of you by suspense, or intensity, or just the sheer fun of killing things while listening to kick ass music (the american past-time) THATS what doom is about, to each his own, so stop ejaculating in our faces because you're jeleous that we actually understand and apreciate the true meaning of doom. ...i actually typed christmas for that last word and then changed it when i realized my mistake. im not too quik.

[Sephiroth]

honestly i use legacy alot, for playing plain doom and doom maps, i dont think openGL ruins the game at all. hell quake1 was software based anyway, and quake2 many people also had to use its software render. i think GL adds to the wonder of doom, I mean come on it makes doom look great. I am not saying original doom looks like shit, i play the plain doom on my freshy built 486 system. You should be happy that some one took the long ass time to make these ports and to use GL, thanks guys. in a way that is someones vision of doom at its greatest. you dont run into an art musem and yell "that painting sucks! its not true to the artist/gernra/etc." that something u dont do. if u dont like the port dont use it. i try to play all the ports and i have found i like legacy and zdoom. I also think that doom is still doom, however qdoom could be said of turning doom to quake but qdoom was to show off edge

[SteelPH]

mechasam, you have understand that doom didnt change, lots of people still plat classic doom2.exe, I play the classic doom2.exe (probably more than any source port)i only use source ports in case of overflow and things like that. just because source ports were made doesnt mean doom = quake, it doesnt. im an old school doomer since who knows when, and i still play the doom95 engine!(death to doom95!!).


now shut up and play the doom2.exe (if it still works, and it probably doesnt since you probably have windows xp) and if it doesnt work, use a windows sorcewport or doom95(death to doom95!!) now shut up! shut up! SHUT THE FUCKING HELL UP!!!

[mechasam]

footman, no one asked u to read my post. if ur gonna have some kind of dumbass comment like that, dont even bother to waste my time.

[EllipsusD]

Why make source ports? Better yet- why use them? Windows is making the task of getting to DOS harder and harder. So for those of us who want to play Doom on a Windows machine, having a source port that runns under Windows just makes life easier.

Why do people include all sorts of "new fangled" options (jumping, colored lighting, etc.)? Because they want to. I personally enjoy playing Doom at 800x600. Does that make Doom any less like Doom? No. With the high resolutions I'm used to playing games at these days, playing at Dooms naturaly resolution hurts my already failing eyes. Free-look and mouse? It's a matter of opinion, but it makes the transition from every other FPS I play to Doom much easier. I like to have the same key setup for all my games. In my opinion it doesn't hurt the way Doom plays or the way it feels. Colored lighting and GL? It makes Doom look nicer. I personally don't use those, but it doesn't hurt the Doom feel.

If people want to make source ports to make Doom do something as simple as look better, then that is their decision and nobody should stand in their way. It doesn't mean they like Doom any less than you do. Saying that would be like saying any user made wads would not be Doomlike, and those people must not like Doom enough if they are willing to make levels that aren't "Doom-like".

As somebody said before, a TC is just that, a total conversion. It's meant to change the feel of Doom into something else. You really shouldn't even think of it as Doom. If you think about it, any game using an engine that doesn't change the game's code could be considered a TC, including commercial products that you wouldn't hink would have anything to do with Doom. There is absolutely nothing wrong with trying to make the best TC you can, using whatever methods you can to make it enjoyable. Any less than that is more of an insult than "neglecting" what Doom "should feel like" could ever be.

Classic mapping isn't gone completely. Many people use the features of source ports to make their levels better and to surpass the Doom engines limitations, but in that same right many people have not embraced the new mapping style for themselves. Some people find it too hard, others just don't want to deal with it, content to pushing the limits of Dooms engine as is. Neither way is right or wrong or better than the other. It's all a matter of opinion, and opinions are to be argued or discussed- not attacked.

I think the main difference between you and me is that I see Doom in the form of memories and concepts. I focus on what Doom means as an entity... not as a technicality. YOu focus too much on what Doom looks and plays like to realize that under all the glamour people add to it Doom is still Doom. I would say that most people here share in my views to some extent. We care about what Doom is here. Do you?