the art of making big maps

[Xtife]

heyas

im a novice mapper, iv learned most of the mapping techniques found in vanilla doom2.exe

there is still one thing i havent learned... and thats making bigger maps
how do you more experinced mappers, come up with ideas to do make such huge and detailed maps. and what should i do as a new mapper to accomplish this?

[MikeyScoots]

Xtife said:

how do you more experined mappers, come up with ideas to do make such huge and detailed maps. and what should i do as a new mapper to accomplish this?

Three words: Years of Practice.

[Xtife]

thats sort of a no-brainer :) of course you guys have had alot of time and practice. and i know thats the meat of it

but there must be something else involved.
id go crazy if i had to think up a huge map like that lol :p do you guys just think of a basic theme and just map as you go? or do you plan the whole thing out before you map it all?

[-_DLD_-]

My maps are slowly getting bigger and bigger as I make them. I guess I'm getting better at thinking in "mapping", so I can build good mental pictures and I can think of more things to do in each room/map.

[skadoomer]

Xtife said:

but there must be something else involved.id go crazy if i had to think up a huge map like that

You don't start by saying to yourself, "gee frank, maybe i'll build the biggest map i possibly can", usually what you do is define a list of objectives you want the player to face and then start building. I beleave the expierence comes in when you have to find a filler for the spaces inbetween the objectives (like puzzles, keys, ect). Other times, large maps just happen. Cool stuff starts betting built and dosn't stop until the author just runs out of ideas or modivation.

[Dr. Zin]

Maybe this is just my style, but I just build whatever comes to mind as I make my maps. Since I just keep adding more and more ideas the map just ends up large.

[-_DLD_-]

I start with a basic outline of what I want done, then I just go from there.

[Chopkinsca]

My maps are big because I am compensating for something. Really though, whenever my map is almost done I end up adding another hallway, staircase, or quarry.

[kristus]

I make pretty big maps.

I've always been inspired by the idea of having maps big enough to span an entire episode worth of level data. :p

But what I usually think when I make these maps is, "This isn't enough, it's too short to travel. This must be bigger because it'd be too bland if it wasn't." etc.

I usually decide on a theme for the map first.
Then I (most of the time) decide what will happen in the map. IE WTH you are running around there killing stuff. Then I get a pretty good idea of what I wanna make. And then I start to build.

Occationally I've made some rough sketches of the layout. Sometimes I even drawn concept art of the design. But it's very rare. I think that I should make a habit out of doing this more though. As I believe it will help me to make more complex and intresting designs.

[Lutrov71]

Some basic advice to making a larger level is to simply continue adding areas! If you were going to exit a level somewhere, making the exit button a door and continue mapping. Try not to make the level too non-linear though, otherwise the player can easily get frustrated due to confusion.
Making areas that are connected to other areas always helps too. I do alot of this in Community Chest 2, Map06. Take a look at it as an example.
Detailing a map is another story, it comes with time. :)
It's important to know that a level doesn't have to be detailed to look good. I can fill a level with uber-detail but I often deside not to. Try and focus on lighting and scenery to get a good looking level without resorting to whordes of detail.

Bloodskull said:

Three words: Years of Practice.

It doesn't take years of practise to make a large level.

[TwinBeast]

Yea, definitely doesn't take, but when you have years of practise, you might want to make a big huge box filling the max playable area... :P

[kristus]

The art of making large maps is that it takes fucking forever to beta test them.

[Vegeta]

Bloodskull said:

Three words: Years of Practice.

Probably for you, but I think the average doomer need less, just look at the maps from 1994 in the 10 years of DOOM section, most if not all of them are large and very well done. Of course these authors are not average doomers, but there are lots of similar examples.

--

My formula to make a large map is, first to have a scheme of what kind of map you want, then list locations, tasks, objetives, that the player must, or may, cross. Once then, design the map in a paper (or in your mind at least). Once you start mapping you'll recreate the scheme in the engine, and you may find things that would look better if you add some modifications, deletions, and extra stuff. And keep in mind that large maps require time, they aren't a one day work. The problem with this method is that if you plan to make a megawad you'll get lazy and abandon the project arround the 50% completed (I recomend this method for wads with one, two, or three maps). In case you want to make more maps, just map whatever enter in your mind, design the main rooms, and THEN, add the connections between them, where you include hallways, minor rooms, and a few other large ones from time to time.

Still as other doomers I rather prefer a bunch of small/medium maps rather than a single large one. I just find quite annoying/tedious/boring to be in the same map more than certain ammount of time (arround 20/25 minutes).

[Mivalekan]

Creativity.

[Fanatic]

I usually write a story to follow for a large map, with general idea of what things should look like, things for the player to do, etc.

[-_DLD_-]

Mivalekan said:

Creativity.

That's a big thing. I hate getting writer's block when creating a map. When it comes to just plain mapping the skeleton of the map (no powerups, items, health, ammo, or baddies), I'm usually pretty good...I always have to spend 1-3 days on laying out the fecking things properly...it's hard as hell (pun not intended...or was it?) sometimes.

[Hobbs]

Well, there is no art to making big maps. If you have a layout in your head, you just put that layout down. If its big, then its big. Not much to it. The art is getting large maps not to be boring.

[kristus]

You talk out of your ass as usual.

Of course there's an art. Any asshat can make a really big map. only takes a sector and 3 lines that are above 10000 units long. Ta-da, you got a big map.

Just like any asshole can splash paint on a canvas. The art isn't to actually make it, it's to make it have value, make things work as a whole. Same goes for a map.

It's not art, if you don't put your soul into it's making. But it also requires that you know what the fuck you are doing. Many put their soul into it, but have no clue what they're doing. Others know what they are doing, but are doing it in a almost mechanical manner. Neither of these people create anything resembling art.

Hence the expression, "The art of making...". If not, then it would just have been "The making..." and the answer to that had been easy, I already gave it in the start of my post. Right after the insult I gave you.

EDIT for the probably thousand time: And Bloodskull was right, sheer talent only gets you so far, experience and passion is what makes it special.

[188DarkRevived]

Instead of thinking of a super huge layout on day1 of the project, try to think of a small-sized layout first. Then, as the weeks and days go by, you expand on that previously made layout with every session that you have.
So basically you start from like a central core and then you spread further and further out each weekend, playtesting after every hour of construction as you go along of course. That's what I do when it comes to handling a huge map.

[sausage]

i have the problem where I seem to make certain areas too small and too big decorations inside.

but i do put the required detail.


anyways, back to subject.

Do what i do. Make it as you go along.

- sausage

[Mordeth]

I always start my next humongously large map by saying to myself: "Can we please try to keep this one small, you stupid git?" :)

Seriously, levels just seem to grow large when working on them, and I have to put my effort into keeping things compact and contained. Often I have to cut features, and save those for the next map. All the while original plans were very simple: "this map is going to be about this and that, with this kind of general theme". And that original plan still holds after I finish... just on a grander scale than I had originally in mind.

Never plan a big level. Just plan a general layout/levelflow, a general theme and some features you want. Planning a big level in advance will often lead to you "filling in the blanks" by uninspired or repetative structures. Also, resist the temptation to put several distinctive ideas together into one level.

When you finish, you should be able to give a distinctive description of your level... "the level is about this". Like, "This level takes place in a castle; you start imprisoned in the cellars and work your way up to the highest tower to defeat the evil wizard. General theme is dark gothic castle, monsters are undead and ghosts". And not like, "You start imprisoned in a dungeon, you escape and have to find your way out, then make your way through a village, then take a boat to the castle and work your way from the cellars to three towers, where you have to defeat wizards to get access to a teleporter that will bring you to a giant arena where you have to fight the big wizard." The first level has a nice, contained theme which leaves you free to explore its possibilities. While the second level has incorporated several levelideas into one big map, piling one on top of eachother without much cohesion. This second level might be larger, but the first level has better gameplay.

Simple ideas can grow into big levels if you manage to fully explore the possibilities of your theme. So my advice to you would be: pick a simple, contained theme... sit down, and think up all the different things you can do with it.

For example that castle... we all have ideas about what a castle is all about, or have seen how others have done castles in levels or movies... big walls, a gate, towers, dungeon with prisons and torture chamber, big halls, rooms, winding stairs, candles, traps, a courtyard. And so on and on. Let your mind's eye wander about possible scenes, and how you want to build those. Then come up with a general idea on how to connect stuff together, and how you want your levelflow to be.

Some other advice: you will have creative periods, and periods when you aren't feeling creative. Use your creative period to lay down new structures, and use your less-creative period to fill in the details of existing structures. And never be afraid to admit that some things aren't working as you build it and rip them out to start anew.

[sausage]

You make so little seem like so much to me!

but for the person who is asking.
Making maps big can be really easy
just carry on mapping and mapping.

- sausage

[Optimus]

Till now, I started with the urge of building a starting room and then I randomly added new coridors/rooms/halls/etc. What I want to do in the future is to brainstorm on new maps and try to imagine the place I want to map, it's functionality, what kinds of rooms will it have, focus on a specific style, architecture, colors, textures,. not just connecting random rooms as I did so far..

I am still building my new map now and it seems that it will be bigger than I thought. It just happened, cause I designed some more places I had in mind, I had to design few more stuff because I had to hide the keys somewhere for another door, or I just got obsessed and build diferrent and more places than I originally thought. At least, I am trying to keep gameplay as linear as it gets this time. It will be a nice map, perhaps not as short as I wanted, but cool and simple :)

[Ismaele]

"Big maps" doesn't mean "nice levels"... although most of great-looking levels are big, such as Sacrifice in Blood, the Vrack series, The City of The Damned, Deus Vult, and though I tend to make big maps... he, he! =D There are also small but nice maps, such as Congestion Control 1 & 2, Europa 3 - The Dark Side ov Vrack (although it can be considered nearly a medium/big map!), Metamorphism, Reanimated, Sin City 1 & 2, Void, Hedrox, Realm of The Green Soul, Tanis Base and Yesterday's Nigthmare (these last two .WADs are quite small, but ver good-looking!). Not to mention episodes, hubs and PCs/TCs, made up of medium/small levels, like Scythe and its sequel, Hell Factory, Phocas Island, Vile Flesh, RTC-3057 Blue Hub 1, Death Is Just The Beginning!
As I wrote above, I myself tend to make big maps: Outpost of Hell and Outpost of Hell 2 - The Fortress, Blitz and its sequel, the levels I made for Hellcore (map21 - Toxic Waste Treatment Centre) and for Italian DooM - Episode 1: The Lost Colony (map01 - UAC Rocket Base and map06 - Infernal Deities), but one of my latest creations, Red Eye, is quite small and has been appreciated by the Doom community!
So, just let you be carried away from your inspiration (or Doom muse, as I call it)! Don't plan to make a BIG map, but just carry out all the ideas you have in your mind; when ideas run out, then try to improve what you did before and complete your map. If you really want to make a big level, I suggest that you split it in smaller maps, that make up a hub: in this way the player shouldn't get bored. Obviously remember to vary the main theme, textures, flats, colour schemes and such, so that your level (especially if it is big!) doesn't look monotonous! ;) Of course it's not just graphics, but also gameplay and difficulty: so put also tricks, traps, puzzles and such!
However, I still repeat what I wrote at the beginning: BIG doesn't mean BEAUTIFUL!

P.S.: You can find reviews and links to fore-mentioned .WADs at "Outpsot of Doom 2": http://www.webalice.it/sposito.lag/.