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insertwackynamehere

Tookie Williams Put To Death

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fodders said:

It can actually increase the chances of murder, if you are gonna die if you get caught, you kill all witnesses, hostages or kidnap victims. What have you got to lose?

Win.

However, I won't lose any sleep if some scumbag gets killed.

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scuba...not to be racist but most of Alabama's homicides and death rates are minorities. ok, I AM being racist. gangstas should get along already.

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Graf Zahl said:

Move to Saudi Arabia. I think with such an attitude you'd be welcome there.

I learned my manners in Oman. That place is the reason I want a real monarchy back in Britain.

There's a lot of reasons why almost any civilized country (with one exception) doesn't use the death penalty.

Because if they did they'd be rejected from the EU.

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i must say, to add to my list of idiotic things, how people say "tookie's innocent, he didnt kill those 4 people!" he was found guilty of doing so and there is enough evidence to show that he probably did. But they admit that he cofounded the crips gang [1]. This alone means that he holds partial responsibility for every single person the crips have killed so far. This adds up to considerable more than four people.

oh and another thing. he wrote some bullshit books about his life? um thats totally illegal, making money off your crimes. because you know people only bought his books because of his name. i mean like a mom would buy her kid a book written by an "ex"-criminal.

The Crips were co-founded by Stanley Williams (who was executed by the State of California in December of 2005) and Raymond Washington. Williams argued that this was after the two became fed up with random violence in their neighborhood. Law enforcement officials dispute this, pointing to the incredible amount of violent crimes the gangmembers participated in, even in the early years.

[2]

gee i'm tired of random violence, what this neighborhood needs is some organized violence!

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Tookie didn't make a single penny off those books he wrote. Just thought I'd correct you. And I don't believe he should've been granted clemency, he was found guilty of brutally murdering four innocent people in cold blood. And another interesting fact I recently discovered; the Crips were initially started to combat the small gangs that were terrorizing LA at the time. Tookie started the Crips to protect his community from gangs and police brutality, but eventually his gang morphed into the same monster they were combating. http://www.tookie.com/abtook.html

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yes thats his side of the story. now lets look at reality. they were commiting crimes all the way back. gangs dont help anyone. they ruin neighborhoods and make people living near them go through HELL. imagine living somewhere where you were scared of everything around you even in your own house because your walking around was putting your life in danger. its nice to make it sound poetic like the Crips were supposed to help people, but its bs. and like I said, no matter how much he repents, all that does is bring him back up to an acceptable level of humanity that our society accepts. it doesnt change what he did and it doesnt make him a hero. he didnt do anything special, and he shouldnt be glorified. he killed people and repented. oh joy! all those people who try to make the world a better place without fucking it up first are no match for this guy!

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Also, in the early 90's, Tookie released a video taped message to the gangs in LA(Bloods and Crips) and as a result a city-wide truce was reached, a peace treaty if you will. I'm not sure how long it lasted, but I think that goes to show that he was at least sincere about his denouncing of gang violence.

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baron is right about Tookie's original intentions. But anyone with that kind of power goes nuts, and he did, and now he paid for it. Bleeding-heart liberals need to die. Let's see how they feel then their relatives get brutally slaughtered by some street punk. Justice was served, although I think he's an intruiging character, it was served.

We have little blood/crip wannabe's circling the area here on the outskirts of Boston. I'm in a "crip" (and I use the term loosely) fortified area, and although most of them are kind and respectable and keep their violence in gangland only, you do occasionally get the retard trigger-happy jackasses that jack old ladies for spare change. These are the reasons I'm glad he's gone.

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I also read somewhere that the Bloods were formed to combat the Crips, who were supposedly terrorizing the community as well. People close to that culture view the Crips as the greater of the two evils(Bloods and Crips) even saying the Bloods have honor and a "real" sense of family, and are much less likely to intentionally harm innocent people. Also, Crips fight amongst themselves, where as Bloods are much more united. Meh, violence begets more violence.

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baronofhell said:

I also read somewhere that the Bloods were formed to combat the Crips, who were supposedly terrorizing the community as well. People close to that culture view the Crips as the greater of the two evils(Bloods and Crips) even saying the Bloods have honor and a "real" sense of family, and are much less likely to intentionally harm innocent people. Also, Crips fight amongst themselves, where as Bloods are much more united. Meh, violence begets more violence.


Republicans : Bloods :: Democrats : Crips

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Green Party : Jets

Csonicgo said:

scuba...not to be racist but most of Alabama's homicides and death rates are minorities. ok, I AM being racist. gangstas should get along already.

I don't know if you're being racist, just getting closer to the point that it stems from poverty... which is abundant among people of colour in the south. Poverty is one of the major contributing factors of violent crime.

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Scuba Steve said:

The only reason he was executed was because the United States is largely Christian and Christians fucking love killing people, LOVE it. "Thou Shalt Not Kill... except for murderers, pro abortion activists, and anyone else... maybe liberals... oh and Muslims, yeah those fuckin' Muslims! Anyone brown for that matter. You know forget this Commandment, I suppose it's not really that important."

I'm surprised no one talked about this one. I say complete and utter BULLSHIT. Any Christian who does anything like that is not a Christian in my eyes. Only messed-up extremeists and racists think that way, and generalizing the entire group because of the actions of a few misguided individuals only serves to piss people off more. This is exactly the same thing that so many people are saying about Muslims, and I can't stand it. Just because bin Ladin kills a bunch of people in the name of Allah, doesn't make Islam a violent religion. Just because some sick-minded Christian goes and shoots up an abortion office in the name of Jesus doesn't make the rest of us into scumbags. Get it straight, dumbass. You're just as bad as the people you're putting down.

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Well, I was considering that too, but I didn't detect very much sarcasm in the post. I apologize if I made that mistake, but if sarcasm was intended, it wasn't clear enough.

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It was a joke about many christians who have no problems reconciling the death penalty or lust for war, yet site biblical reasonings that all life is sacred when it is convenient. I generalized the group only because there is a LARGE portion of the American population that falls in this category.

If life is sacred from birth, then all or none... you don't pick and chose which. But you're right, most people in this country aren't really Christian, most just show up on Sundays to be able to justify doing bad things and tell everyone they are religious so they can feel good about themselves. There are real christians out there... but I've found they're often few and far between.

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Scuba Steve said:

It was a joke about many christians who have no problems reconciling the death penalty or lust for war, yet site biblical reasonings that all life is sacred when it is convenient. I generalized the group only because there is a LARGE portion of the American population that falls in this category.

I find it sad that they seem to have "conveniently" missed this part of the Bible: "He who is sinless among you, let him be the first to throw the stone".

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Scuba Steve said:

If life is sacred from birth, then all or none... you don't pick and chose which. But you're right, most people in this country aren't really Christian, most just show up on Sundays to be able to justify doing bad things and tell everyone they are religious so they can feel good about themselves. There are real christians out there... but I've found they're often few and far between.

Totally agree here. I also believe this quote from Ghandi is somewhat relavent here:

Ghandi once said:

The only people on Earth who do not see Christ and His teachings as nonviolent are Christians.

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Well, I apologize again for flaming you, Scuba. I agree with your restatement totally, though. My girlfriend's mom refuses to call herself a Christian because of that simple reason; Christians by and large don't follow Christ.

That's the problem with most religion: It's only followed when it's convenient.

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Solution: Replace prisons with kennels.

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Better Solution: Divert funds from bloated Military spending to criminal rehabilitation programs. Failing that, turn criminals into elite and highly trained Manroids (like an android or a cyborg, only it sounds more gay).

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Another thing that came to my mind, why do these gangs form after all?
Because of poverty.
So we (the world) should remove the problem at it roots -> Remove poverty.
Dont know how yet without removing your all so beloved money but i am working on it ;)
Moneyless world would have much less crime, but tell that to the people and they tend to call you an utopist :-(

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Janderson said:
Because if they did they'd be rejected from the EU.

Hey, non-European countries can join it now as well?!

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Actually, Germany had a good idea for handling Death Row prisoners back in the 70's, I think. They'd give people waiting for execution the option of dying, or being human crash test drivers. They'd stick you in a car, tell you to crash it into a wall or more cars, whatever, and use the data just like a dummy.

Prisoners who survived a certain amount of wrecks were pardoned, those who died, died. Great idea, methinks.

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myk said:

Hey, non-European countries can join it now as well?!

Trying to catch me with my pants down are you?!

From what I'm hearing from Graf I think all the civilised countries are in the West, America being his one exception.

I think that deathrow candidates should be forced to part with their spare organs a year or two from the execution... we'd use anesthetic for that of course.

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Janderson said:
From what I'm hearing from Graf I think all the civilised countries are in the West, America being his one exception.

So the idea is that only Europe and the US are civilized and the Americas are not part of "the West"? Where are they, in the East?

Ask Graf Zahl what he meant, but his sentence does not exclude that civilized nations exist outside North America and Europe. It rather seems like he was being generous to some country that apparently remains civilized somehow, even though the death penalty is accepted there. Plus I don't see why the US is more civilized than some other countries that also have the death penalty.

Also, the fact that the EU Parliament made a statement about the death penalty doesn't idiotically reduce the issue between "following the EU or not." Civilized countries have independently gotten rid of it having had nothing to do with the EU or its particular policies. The death penalty is indeed a mark and standard of barbaric or totalitarian states, though.

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myk said:

So the idea is that only Europe and the US are civilized and the Americas are not part of "the West"? Where are they, in the East?

That depends on where you think the divider is, but if you are looking at a standard map yes the Americas are in the west. I don't know how I got onto this tack, I guess I thought he was saying all the eastern countries barbaric and his America should really know better then those savages. But just because your country has the death penalty, doesn't make you a barbarian.

his sentence does not exclude that civilized nations exist outside North America and Europe.

A single country outside America and Europe you say? How generous. Oh wait, it's me jumping the gun again.

It rather seems like he was being generous to some country that apparently remains civilized somehow, even though the death penalty is accepted there.

My moneys on Singapore.

Also, the fact that the EU Parliament made a statement about the death penalty doesn't idiotically reduce the issue between "following the EU or not."

And that was my attempt at political humour, don't worry it didn't sound funny in my head either.

Civilized countries have independently gotten rid of it having had nothing to do with the EU or its particular policies.

What if a tribe somewhere doesn't have capital punishment but eat their own faeces to scare away bad spirits, are they still civilised?

The death penalty is indeed a mark and standard of barbaric or totalitarian states, though.

I think you missed out 'is seen as'.

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Janderson said:
What if a tribe somewhere doesn't have capital punishment but eat their own faeces to scare away bad spirits, are they still civilised?

Perhaps that's where tubgirl is from...

I think you missed out 'is seen as'.

My point is that if you merely look at the map and see what countries generally support it, the EU's statement makes sense.

The issue on the death penalty is central to what conception is taken in regard to "human rights" and the way the individual (or group) is considered and ultimately treated. Would it be so easy to bomb Iraq without the understanding that killing people with some justification is acceptable? "Look, bad person!" "Kill, kill, kill!" The judicial system is part of society and isn't unbiased or disinterested when judging and applying sentences, thus must be extremely careful with what it does. Ultimate justice is impossible, so ultimate punishment should be avoided.

And in the case of this Tookie guy, who apparently did really nasty things, he was killed once he had stopped actively being doing so. And even if one might think he wasn't sincere, he was given credit by killing him off way after that; credit to his claim and credit to the notion of justice as violence and revenge.

No one should be put to death (except maybe for personal medical reasons) as long as you can keep a civilized society. Even the Nazi perpetrators of the Holocaust or whoever nuked Nagasaki and Hiroshima should be spared from judicial extermination. If individuals kill each other, it's a crime, if the state kills someone, it's a political or military action, not justice.

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