Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Ebon

Opinions on Unholy Cathedral

Recommended Posts

That's original e3m5. It's my favourite episode 3 level, since it's spooky, puzzling and with few monsters but big & bad ones. There are many stilish traps too.
But actually what's community's opinion? As I read, many seem to hate it, probably cause they get lost. Personally I found it easy to navigate, thanks to Demo3, so I had no prob. So you think it's the best episode 3 level?
And come to think of it... what e3m5 lookalike vanilla doom wads would you recommend? I mean nonlinear, subtle puzzles, evil design and sparse but hard opposition.

Share this post


Link to post

It's been a long time since I've played through E3...but I have few good memories of E3M5. I'll probably find it a lot better next time through, though.

Share this post


Link to post

For me, the first thing that comes to mind when I think about that map is the mystic inscription which is carved in red up on the tall walls outdoors. This inscription apparently reads "flo".

There's been a thread here about a year ago, discussing what this inscription could possibly mean.
I can't dig it out for you, but i'm sure that it's preserved within the archives.

Share this post


Link to post

Despite the fact it is a very popular and atmospheric map, there is something, and don't know what, that I simply don't like about it. As a result, I find it quite an unsatisfying map to play and it comes pretty low in my list of favourite original maps.

Share this post


Link to post

When I was playing Doom for the very first time, this is the one map that tripped me up and took about half of the time I spent on E2 and E3 combined. I always hated the splotchy colors of the light fading, so I would only play with lite-amp on. Because of this, I could never tell which of the 4 teleporters let me out of the middle section. Cue 2 hours of frustration.

Share this post


Link to post

It's one of the better done maps, still for some reason I find it a bit boring. And yeah E3M5 it's the very first hell map created for DOOM as far as I know. E3M3 was done first, but as a base map.

Share this post


Link to post
Lüt said:

Because of this, I could never tell which of the 4 teleporters let me out of the middle section. Cue 2 hours of frustration.


Even without the light amp, that describes me playing this level. Maybe not 2 hours though, but always longer than it should be - even now.

Share this post


Link to post
Lüt said:

When I was playing Doom for the very first time, this is the one map that tripped me up and took about half of the time I spent on E2 and E3 combined. I always hated the splotchy colors of the light fading, so I would only play with lite-amp on. Because of this, I could never tell which of the 4 teleporters let me out of the middle section. Cue 2 hours of frustration.

Heh, I also played with SUCKS in the tally :), searching for that already open locked yellow door forever...

You could look at the demo... To be sure, take the same path as demo3. After you take the invincibility, go right to the telepads. Then again, you can scan the evil signs on the pads. And really, why has fading been annoying you BACK THEN?

Vegeta said:

It's one of the better done maps, still for some reason I find it a bit boring.[/n]

Nah, e3m5 can be played in many ways. You can for example release half the level into the yard, simply by opening doors from each side (like demo3 did) and shooting.

Share this post


Link to post
Enjay said:

Even without the light amp, that describes me playing this level. Maybe not 2 hours though, but always longer than it should be - even now.

Heh, I was a bit rushed that time and wasn't keen to certain details. I was at my aunt's house for a family holiday thing. Somebody had brought a laptop with Doom on it. We weren't sure when we would be leaving, so I wanted to get through the entire game as fast as possible. The guy knew the godmode cheat, the weapons cheat, and the items-listing cheat. I had to get by on those alone. I wasn't stuck in the middle for 2 hours straight, but I did spend about 75% of my total time in there. I think it's mandatory to end up there at least 3 times. I probably got myself stuck in there 10 times.

Ebon said:

You could look at the demo... To be sure, take the same path as demo3. After you take the invincibility, go right to the telepads. Then again, you can scan the evil signs on the pads. And really, why has fading been annoying you BACK THEN?

Heh, yeah I've got it figured out now. I realized the different teleporter texture the third or fourth time I played, which was at my leisure rather than in a rush. Also, I wasn't even aware of the demos back then.

The light fading still annoys me, but I've grown used to it. The color degrading is absolutely horrid, especially on the red and maroon walls, and the banding is completely unnecessary. It probably wouldn't be half as annoying if it weren't for the banding.

Share this post


Link to post

I don't know this level exceedingly well. I have only played it a few times but it didn't take me too long to beat it. The reason I haven't played this level very much is because I am a console gamer and the Doom game that I played the most was the SNES version and this level isn't in the SNES version. Now I have the Xbox version which is basically a direct port from the PC version but I only played through it once. I have played this level on the 32X but only once or twice. I'm not really sure about this but is this level in the PS version? I might have played it on there too, I'm not sure. Also, I, too, rushed too much when I played this level the few times that I played it and got frustrated by getting the wrong teleporter too many times but once I stopped rushing, I figured it out quickly and logically by process of elimination and paying attention to what direction I was facing and which teleporter I had just used from the direction I was facing. I still don't have it memorized which teleporter takes you to where so if I were to play it right now, I would still have to figure it out again. I really don't have much else of an opinion on this level because I have not played it very much and don't remember everything from it but I like it because of the challenge of a relatively unknown level (to me). Can you believe there are still classic Doom levels I have not played yet? Even though I am a big Doom fan, I am kind of deliberately putting it off because once I finish playing every level, then I've played every level, nothing new left for me to play and experience. I'm half-way through Episode 4 of Ultimate Doom but there are also many Final Doom levels I have not played yet that I really want to play but I want to wait for a console port (besides the PS port which had way too few levels from Final Doom).

Share this post


Link to post
Nuxius said:

Unholy Cathedral isn't in the 32X version, mkfanatic. As a matter of fact, no Episode 3 level made it into the 32X version. You're probably thinking of the PSX version, which it was in.


But why would Sega do that?
Why leave out the most important chapter of the game?
It's like leaving out the part where Anakin Skywalker converts into Darth Vader.
Who would want to miss a chance to see that?
Likewise, who would want to miss a chance to visit Hell on a quest to save mankind from its evil?

Share this post


Link to post

I believe Unholy Cathedral is the only map in Ultimate Doom or Doom2 that has invalid tags of the "press this and the level falls apart" type. However, you can't actually reach the relevant linedefs as a normal player (you need to idspispopd or turn yourself into a ghost), so it doesn't really matter.

I'd never noticed the blinking light clue (I suppose how obvious it is depends on your monitor and gamma settings). I'd presumed it was just a matter of trial and error, or simply knowing the route.

Share this post


Link to post

Sometimes I wish all the maps looked like their titles. That would make for an interesting game.

Share this post


Link to post
Lüt said:

That would make for an interesting game.


I think the opposite. These maps are like Doom's interpretation of reality. All these 'super-realistic' environments in shooters these days is getting tired. Luckily even realism in the Doom engine still feels Doomy most of the time.

Share this post


Link to post

That said, which I agree to, E3M5 does give the impression of being some sort of evil temple, with that triple doored entrance, the strange symbols and some of the doorways. It's an "Unholy Cathedral" in Hell and not a cathedral in Paris or some other human environment. I've always felt E3M5 is an early map of Sandy's where he hadn't defined his style completely yet and is thus more mimetic than usual (as he explored the engine possibilities), particularly in using "detail." Athough it does center itself around those teleporters in a way that's very Petersenish (in giving the map a definitive technical element that makes it relatively unique in the set.)

Share this post


Link to post

That being said, what about E2m5? That's still done by Sandy Petersen, even though I always thought Tom Hall could have done it, which seems to be false. I mean E2m5 looks very very compact for a Petersenish level.

Share this post


Link to post

To me it looks like in E2M5 Petersen was playing around with the more "rooms and halls maze" base-styled layout used by Tom Hall and John Romero. The Command Center does have more symmetrical areas like Tom's maps show, and also a start that's much like the ones found in E1M3 or E1M7.

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×