Who would win?

[Nautilus]

Alboroto said:

Romero's Head on a stick

All it can do is just spawn any Doom monster, save cyberdemons and spider masterminds. And it's stationary, so it wouldn't last for too long.

[Grazza]

Nautilus said:

All it can do is just spawn any Doom monster, save cyberdemons and spider masterminds.

Actually, it can't even do that - the brain and the spawner are two different things.

Now the spawner on its own (plus a few spawn spots) makes a pretty formidable enemy. :)

[Da Spadger]

Belial said:

D'Sparil vs Heresiarch

How do you do when summoning both in the same game? The heresiarch is from hexen and d'sparil is from heretic. How do you do when summoning both in the same level? I tried "summonfriend heresiarch" in doom, but i didnt get anything usable, only something infront of me that was invincible, invisible and immobile.

[TheDarkArchon]

Include the sprites in a WAD and load it in.

[sundar]

Yes, I tried summoning Heresiarch to fight different Doom enemies. As someone else mentioned, he can waste a Cyberdemon but loses to the Mastermind. In fact, he hardly did any damage to the Spider. I witnessed the same Spider taking down three Heresiarches(one by one).

Heresiarch also had problems with the Pain Elemental who put up a decent fight but in the end, his own lost souls betrayed him causing him to explode. If the Elemental can keep his distance, he can definitely beat Heresiarch, or any enemy for that matter.

BTW, how do you summon D'sparil in ZDOOM? "summon d'sparil" doesn't work.


I set up a fight between a Spider Mastermind and D'Sparil. During the fight, the monster count increased a little, that must have probably been D'Sparil summoning allies. I don't have his sprites so I don't know what was going on but I suddenly noticed that when the Spider died, the kills counter said: 8/8(on the map).

I tried the same again, only to notice the same thing again. I tried it with a Cyberdemon too, so I am assuming that when D'Sparil dies, he sort of explodes or something, the effect of which is very powerful and causes the foe to die with him.

NOTE; I have neither played Hexen nor Heretic, nor do I have any of their sprites.

chopkinsca said:

Yeah, as only the sigil can damage it.

What about the Cyberdemon from Doom3? Only the Soul Cube can hurt him.

No, The Entity from Strife can also be telefragged.

I spawned a friendly Entity on Map30(Icon of Sin),DoomII. Obviously, the entity had no problems destroying the Revenant near the Icon of Sin(aka Romero, Baphomet entity).

The Baphomet(which includes the monster spawner, Romero's head and spawn spots) is not recognised as a monster, so the Entity did not even try to attack Romero's head. The Entity continued its rampage on all the spawned monsters, but not for long since after some time, monsters were no longer attacked by anything. Now, I don't have Strife either so to me, the Entity is just an invisible force. I am assuming it was telefragged since it cannot be destroyed by other projectiles. The reason why I am so sure of this is because the Entity was fighting an Arachnotron before "dying" so the Arachnotron was shooting plasma towards one of the spawn spots, where a Hell Knight soon spawned and soon the Arachnotron stopped firing. One or two plasma cells did inadvertently hit the Knight tho, who killed the Arachnotron ultimately. After that, there were no more deaths other than those monsters that were telefragged by the monster spawner.

So after all this testing, here's a ranking which shows how powerful the various bosses are:

1.. Icon Of Sin (DOOMII)
2.. Entity (STRIFE)
3.. D'Sparil and Spider Mastermind (They always die together)
4.. Heresiarch
5.. Cyberdemon
6.. Korax

[Enjay]

The Icon of Sin is not powerful, it just needs better aiming of rockets than any of those others can manage. If any of them could aim rockets into a tiny hole in a wall, the Icon would be dead after 5 shots.

Don't forget that Korax has some code pointers specifically for him to execute scripts. If he isn't executing those scripts, you don't have the full Korax. Also, remember those scripts are set up to challenge a player, not another monster.

[DomRem]

sundar said:

BTW, how do you summon D'sparil in ZDOOM? "summon d'sparil" doesn't work.

"summon sorcerer1"

I am assuming that when D'Sparil dies, he sort of explodes or something, the effect of which is very powerful and causes the foe to die with him.

When D'Sparil is killed, the rest of the monsters in the map automatically die along with him. The mastermind has won the fight if she dies at the same time as him.

[Rotting Corpse]

DomRem said:

When D'Sparil is killed, the rest of the monsters in the map automatically die along with him. The mastermind has won the fight if she dies at the same time as him.

If D'Sparil can kill Doom monsters when he dies then he wins. Since he would take every one else with him.

[sundar]

Rotting Corpse said:

If D'Sparil can kill Doom monsters when he dies then he wins. Since he would take every one else with him.

So does this mean than if an imp standing near a barrel throws a fireball at the barrel and explodes along with the barrel, the barrel wins the fight?

Anyway, I agree with DoomRem. So that means D'Sparil never actually won since in all matches, the Spider died along with D'Sparil, and on a few occasions, even the Cyberdemon defeated D'Sparil.

Does this happen only in ZDOOM? Or does it happen in Heretic also?

Enjay said:

The Icon of Sin is not powerful, it just needs better aiming of rockets than any of those others can manage. If any of them could aim rockets into a tiny hole in a wall, the Icon would be dead after 5 shots.

Don't forget that Korax has some code pointers specifically for him to execute scripts. If he isn't executing those scripts, you don't have the full Korax. Also, remember those scripts are set up to challenge a player, not another monster.

The Icon of Sin doesn't just consist of Romero's head. In fact, they're totally different things. Romero's head is placed in the map so that if you kill it, you end the level. So it can be placed anywhere in the map(concealed), not necessarily having a hole on the wall to unveil itself. It can also be placed inside an enclosed area through which no rockets/projectiles can pass. Or it doesn't even have to be placed. Considering that, The Icon Of Sin is invincible.

Plus, The Icon Of Sin is not considered as an enemy of any kind, so no monsters will even attack it(unless you stand near it and move out when the projectiles are about to hit you). Basically, it's the monster spawner I am talking about, which can take down any sort of enemy(even the Entity as I said earlier).

[Belial]

sundar said:

Anyway, I agree with DoomRem. So that means D'Sparil never actually won since in all matches, the Spider died along with D'Sparil, and on a few occasions, even the Cyberdemon defeated D'Sparil.

Does this happen only in ZDOOM? Or does it happen in Heretic also?

...

Do it properly by loading the Doom wad with Heretic, then summon the Doom monsters in E3M8, otherwise D'Sparil will not use his full capabilities. And it's DomRem.

The Icon of Sin doesn't just consist of Romero's head. In fact, they're totally different things. Romero's head is placed in the map so that if you kill it, you end the level. So it can be placed anywhere in the map(concealed), not necessarily having a hole on the wall to unveil itself. It can also be placed inside an enclosed area through which no rockets/projectiles can pass. Or it doesn't even have to be placed. Considering that, The Icon Of Sin is invincible.

Plus, The Icon Of Sin is not considered as an enemy of any kind, so no monsters will even attack it(unless you stand near it and move out when the projectiles are about to hit you). Basically, it's the monster spawner I am talking about, which can take down any sort of enemy(even the Entity as I said earlier).

All of this is completely irrelevant. If you say that a wall wins the contest beacuse it's invincible, I say a torch can pwn it because it can't even be hit.

[TheDarkArchon]

Enjay said:

The Icon of Sin is not powerful, it just needs better aiming of rockets than any of those others can manage. If any of them could aim rockets into a tiny hole in a wall, the Icon would be dead after 5 shots.

The problem is very few can: The only ones that come to mind is the Programmer and his Spectre, since the bolt target would go in and --splat--.

[sundar]

Belial said:

...

Do it properly by loading the Doom wad with Heretic, then summon the Doom monsters in E3M8, otherwise D'Sparil will not use his full capabilities. And it's DomRem.


All of this is completely irrelevant. If you say that a wall wins the contest beacuse it's invincible, I say a torch can pwn it because it can't even be hit.

Irrelevant? What I am trying to say is that Romero's head does not play any role in the spawning of monsters. And I don't think killing it will stop the monster spawner, it just ends the level. But I think that only happens in Map30, due to some special tag. But in other maps where shooting Romero's head doesn't end the level, the monster spawner can be invincible.

In short, the monster spawner can't be killed or stopped.

Oh my bad, it's DomRem.

[myk]

sundar said:
But I think that only happens in Map30, due to some special tag. But in other maps where shooting Romero's head doesn't end the level, the monster spawner can be invincible.

Not really; that's a code pointer that works anywhere. The only difference is that on levels other than the 30th the spawned monsters don't telefrag (either other monsters of the player) merely becoming stuck together sort of like it sometimes happens when the Arch-vile ressurrects a corpse that was too close to another monster. On the 30th level both monsters and players get telefragged by the monsters spawned by the cubes.

[sundar]

Oh is it? Didn't know that. Thanks anyway.

[Belial]

sundar said:

In short, the monster spawner can't be killed or stopped.

Like I said, it's irrelevant, because it's not a monster.

Exzariarch said:

If the monsters of the games Doom/Doom2, Hexen/Heretic, Strife went to war with one another. Which one do you think would win and why?

[ellmo]

Doomguy would win.

He's a fucking monster after all.

[Vegeta]

Korax could activate a script to remove the demon spawner if you give it certain id and place the proper scripting.
Anyway, as it isn't a monster it doesn't really count, it's like saying that one of these little volcanos from Heretic could defeat 10.000 cyberdemons (just force the cybers to attack the volcano with the hate factor).

[DemonDemon]

Crushing ceiling squishes all! :D Now to defeat it's only other rival... Crushing floor! :O